North American Turbocoupe Organization



You got to hear this!
Walsted Offline
Posting Freak
#11
Quote:Originally posted by Walsted:
The 460 in the F250 I used to have was a Cleveland engine...

Quote:Originally posted by Pete D:
The 460 was a Lima Engine.

I could have sworn that I read that the 351C/351M/400/460 were all in the same engine family. Guess I was wrong. What is the difference between the Cleveland and Lima V8 engines (besides the size)?

Since the 460 and the 2.3L engines are both Lima engines, do you think the 460 would be an easy drop-in that I could sneak past the smog guys as an unmodified car? (Just kidding, of course.)

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Mike Walsted - NATO member
1986 5-speed TurboCoupe with a few upgrades.
Mike Walsted - Sold my 1986 5-speed TurboCoupe
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Pete D Offline
Administrator
#12
Mike,
Engine family is one thing - 221- 260 - 289 - 302 - 5.0L - 351W

The plant where a particular engine is produced is an entirely unrelated thing. The 460 was produced at Lima Engine Plant (LEP) The 221,260,289,302/5.0 were produced at Cleveland Engine Plant #1 (CEP#1) But the 351W was produced at Windsor Engine Plant (WEP)

The 2.3 was produced in part at Lima Engine also.
Pete Dunham


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THUNDERPINTO Offline
Senior Member
#13
then the great BOSS 302 that had the sewer pipe size intakes ,4 bolt mains, forged crank,windage tray, ect, and tons of high end power, man from 5000 to 7000 RPM was a trip to behold. Nuttin ever beat me with that animal.
Quote:Originally posted by Pete D:
Mike,
Engine family is one thing - 221- 260 - 289 - 302 - 5.0L - 351W

The plant where a particular engine is produced is an entirely unrelated thing. The 460 was produced at Lima Engine Plant (LEP) The 221,260,289,302/5.0 were produced at Cleveland Engine Plant #1 (CEP#1) But the 351W was produced at Windsor Engine Plant (WEP)

The 2.3 was produced in part at Lima Engine also.
2 87 TC's one is a Watkins Glen
88 TC no engine or interior,a no rust project
66 mustang coupe,71 triumph spit
52 Dodge powerwagon(s)
79 TC powered Pinto
99 Harley Roadking
73 750 Norton Commando Combat
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phyxius1 Offline
Junior Member
#14
i had a 351 w,c and m all sitting beside each other and the size between the m or c to the w was quite a bit.which all ways made me believe the 351 c was a BB with an SB bell bolt patern
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tiny4lx Offline
Member
#15
Quote:Originally posted by tps87turbo:
yes they did have a T5 with a 5.0. That was the 1st year of the Mustang GT. How do I know... A Friend of mine bought one new in 83.

The first year of the Mustang GT was 82. Ask me how i know i owned one for 2 years and it was a original 302 carb'd and factory 4spd. And the 351C is not a small block but you can mod the head to fit a small block.
Its a 2.3 until you hear the whistle
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Walsted Offline
Posting Freak
#16
Quote:Originally posted by tiny4lx:
The first year of the Mustang GT was 82. Ask me how I know.

I owned one for 2 years.

To paraphrase (the late) Mitch Hedberg, Dude, you got to give me time to answer the question before you tell me the answer.

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Mike Walsted - NATO member
1986 5-speed TurboCoupe with a few upgrades.
Mike Walsted - Sold my 1986 5-speed TurboCoupe
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TurboCoupe50 Offline
Posting Freak
#17
Quote:The first year of the Mustang GT was 82. Ask me how i know i owned one for 2 years and it was a original 302 carb'd and factory 4spd. And the 351C is not a small block but you can mod the head to fit a small block.
Right on the '82 GT, wrong on the Clevelands...

The 351 Cleveland most certianly is a small block.. Its deck height is 9.2", the 351 Windsor small block is actually taller at 9.5". Its just the heads that make the 351C look big...

Fords only true big blocks are the old FE series that was discontinued in '76(332, 352, 360, 390, 406, 410, 427, 428), and the 385 series (429, 460).

The 351M and 400 are the Bastards, tall enough to be a big block, but techincally part of the Cleveland small block series.
They even use the 460 type motor mounts, distributor and bell housing pattern(351C uses small block mounts and bell pattern), but share no other dimensions with its larger brothers.

EDIT...

I forgot about the old MEL big block engine series, that are 383, 430, & 462 cu. in. Except for '60 Tbirds this series was only installed in Mercury, Edsels, ans Lincons, hence the MEL desiginaion. These were discontinued in '68 when the 429/460s were introduced.

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Two 1988 Turbo Coupes

1987 Turbo Coupe

1988 Turbo Coupe 5.0 with Trick Flow heads and other mods.

1988 Base T-bird 5.0 Windsor Jr heads and other goodies

1969 Fairlane Cobra (stock)

A couple of Aerostars

Oh yea the wife has a Grand Marquis...


[This message has been edited by TurboCoupe50 (edited 05-01-2005).]
1988 Turbo Coupe331 AOD

1972 Comet GT

1969 Fairlane Cobra 428CJ 4-Speed
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Jeff K Offline
Administrator
#18
You even hear some of this crap from some of the "experts" on some of the automotive TV shows. I forget what program it was, but a month or two ago there was a discussion of the "big block Pontiac" 455 compared to the small block Pontiac. I changed the channel.

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Jeff Korn

88 Turbo Coupe: Intake and exhaust mods, T3 turbo at 21 psi, forced air intercooler, water injection, bypass valve, Ranger roller cam, subframes, etc., etc.. // 86 Tbird 5.0 (original owner): intake, exhaust, valvetrain mods, 100 HP nitrous, ignition, gears, suspension, etc., etc.... // 91 Escort: Bone stock winter car // 04 Taurus Duratec (wifes car)
Jeff Korn

88 Turbo Coupe: Intake and exhaust mods, T3 turbo at 24 psi, forced air IC, water injection, BPV, Ranger cam, subframes, etc., etc.
86 Tbird 5.0 (original owner): intake, exhaust, valvetrain mods, 100 HP N2O, ignition, gears, suspension, etc., etc.
11 Crown Vic Interceptor
14 Toyota Camry (wifes car)
95 Taurus GL Vulcan winter beater
67 Honda 450 Super Sport - completely customized
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PetzJC Offline
Senior Member
#19
The Cleveland is the Red Headed Step Child of SB and BB's. It is neither. The Cleveland is in a class of its own as a Medium Block. Also, it can not be bored out over 040 because it is a thin walled casting. It can be stroked though to about 414 or so (I don't remember the exact number, the website I have bookmarked for Cleveland stoker kits on my computer at work).

I have been messing around with Clevelands ever since I bought my 69 Mach-I in 1980. When it comes to "Production naturally aspirated iron blocks", nothing else compares to the Cleveland's horsepower to cubic-inch output ratio because of its canted valve head design.

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88 Silver T/C, original owner, 259,750 miles.
Loaded with everything except leather & auto trans.
K&N, Gillis(18 psi), SVO roller #1, big SS valves, ported intake, head, & exhaust.
Short block & turbo original/untouched.
Polyurethane bushings throughout, Goodyear GT-HR 235/55R16's.
Former owner of 88 Silver T/C, loaded (except leather & A/T), original owner, 294,815 miles!!!
K&N, Gillis(18 psi), SVO roller #1, big SS valves, ported intake, head, & exhaust.
Short block & turbo original/untouched, spec-II/III clutch combo.
Polyurethane bushings throughout, Goodyear GT-HR 235/55R16
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Pete D Offline
Administrator
#20
Quote:of its canted valve head design.

That and runners you could drive a semi through. I supervised head assy on the 351 line
Pete Dunham


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