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Welding
Qwertys Offline
Senior Member
#1
SO I'm looking into purchasing a MIG Welding machine and learn how to weld. Mostly aluminum and steel, so i was wondering if you guys know of any good sites, books, and what brands etc to buy. I've never welded before but i really need to learn how and where to start. I'm ready to set down at least 500$ for a good MIG welder. I might even buy a good one used from someone here if they have one for sale.
'85 TC BPV and Ford FMIC
'88 TC Kirban AFPR, Autometer Boost, FP and A/R Gauge, 8.8 to 4.10 rear, Walboro 255lph Fuel pump, Garrett GT3071R T3/T4 Dual Ball bearing Turbo, Custom AWIC.
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Pete D Offline
Administrator
#2
I'm in the same boat. I hope to take a course this winter. i've started hitting local auctions/garage sales where they have welding equip advertised, looking for deals

There is a welding forum here: http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard/
Pete Dunham


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Qwertys Offline
Senior Member
#3
thanks pete. i was looking to take a course at my local college also...
'85 TC BPV and Ford FMIC
'88 TC Kirban AFPR, Autometer Boost, FP and A/R Gauge, 8.8 to 4.10 rear, Walboro 255lph Fuel pump, Garrett GT3071R T3/T4 Dual Ball bearing Turbo, Custom AWIC.
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GaryS#2 Offline
Posting Freak
#4
Most compact migs do steel quite well but have a hard time with aluminum.
The fine wire will bunch up and you need a lot of power for the heavier wire. Spool gun on a big machine is best for alum mig.
I have a Lincoln 175 weldpack and it is a very impressive machine.
Before that I had a Miller Sidekick 110 volt and it was a great machine.
There are a lot of good suitcase welders as the are called, it is pretty hard not to get your moneys worth. I couldn't imagine being without my welder and air comp.
Grocery Getter/Rice Cooker.
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verge Offline
Member
#5
I finally hooked up my Lincoln stick welder over the summer. It is harder to get pretty welds with a stick welder with differing material thicknesses or thin stuff.

I just welded an exhaust system with my welder and it was tough to get it hot enough to weld without burning through. I finished it, the welds strong with little slag but very UGLY [Image: frown.gif]

When I weld with a Mig it is so much easier to get pretty welds. I supposed the gas helps.

I have never taken a class so I just discovered the different types of rods for different materials. Has anyone used the AL rods on a stick?
Jackie Francisco
88 TC A4LD all options except leather, 2 1/2 inch Dynomax Super Turbo side exit exhaust, ported head, ported lower, gutted upper, "Home Depot" boost pressure regulator, NGK Vpower plugs, Walbro fuel pump.
If it aint broke, you aren't trying hard enough!
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Shannon Clark Offline
Member
#6
Hobart has been bought out by miller, for a few years now anyway. Mig welders are good at welding steel, but like Gary said they struggle with alum. Spool guns are quite expensive if you dont weld alum very often. Another option is to buy a larger diameter liner like a .035 and run .030 alum wire through it or a
045 for .035 wire. and try to keep the gun and hose in a straight line ( to ease feeding)You will also need to use a different gas. 75/25 for steel straight argon for alum. I worked for a welding supply store for a couple of years. (airgas) hope this helps Shannon
11's in a TC.........Soon
Currently 12.002 @114.77
11's next year I promise!
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Qwertys Offline
Senior Member
#7
Thanks for all the info. even though MIG's aren't good for welding aluminum, what should i get to be able to do so? considering 50% of the time i will do aluminum, what would you recommend?
TIG's are way outa my price range...
'85 TC BPV and Ford FMIC
'88 TC Kirban AFPR, Autometer Boost, FP and A/R Gauge, 8.8 to 4.10 rear, Walboro 255lph Fuel pump, Garrett GT3071R T3/T4 Dual Ball bearing Turbo, Custom AWIC.
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Pete D Offline
Administrator
#8
Yes, Thanks for all the info. Like Qwerty's I wouls like to be able to do some aluminum welding. It won't be a lot and it doesn,t have to be too pretty. Any reasonabbly priced alternatives??

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NATO Member. It's not a vice, it's an obsession
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88 TC, 86 SVO, 04 Escape. Mods list at
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Pete Dunham


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Nitro_X Offline
Senior Member
#9
Pete's right (as usual) on taking a formal course. The next best thing is to have an experienced welder look over your shoulder and give you pointers. The real key here is practice, practice, practice. After you get the basic set-up and techniques, burning lots of wire (or sticks, or both) is the only way to get good. That's expensive and requires self discipline if you don't have some actual work to do (I learned to weld on the job out of necessity and I don't recommend that). So for most people, a local VoTech or college course is best, because you get proper instruction along with plenty of welding time and materials.

If you are truly going to be welding aluminum 50% of the time, then the recommendation to buy a spool gun is valid. The long lead Tweco style gun found on most of the low to mid range "consumer" style welders will foul with aluminum wire more than enough to make that set up virtually useless. The bad news is, even with the short feed length of a spool gun, they foul too, just not as much. Aluminum wire bends very easily and has a tendency to kink and jam (especially smaller diameter wire) no matter what. You just won't have to clear as many jams with a spool gun. If you run heavier wire, then you do have to run higher heat and will burn through lighter material with ease. Three tips here: (1) 100% argon will sort of work on aluminum, but will produce a lot of black sooty residue around a fairly ugly weld. There is a special MIG gas mix (I can't remember the composition exactly now, but it's like 92% AR, 6% N2 and 2% O2) that produces fantastic results. You're local welding supplier can hook you up. (2) On heavier alum. fab and repairs, you will get the absolute best results by preheating the work piece prior to welding. If not, the weld starts out kind of crappy and gets better as the welding process heats the base metal. (3) Cleanliness is essential to welding aluminum. Any dirt, oil, oxidation, etc. on the work piece will produce porous, nasty looking, weak welds. If you have to repair oily or greasy aluminum (especially cast material, since it is porous), removing all the oil or grease is essential (like soaking it in methylene chloride).

I have tried aluminum stick with my Lincoln 225 (AC / DC flavor). It does work but really requires a lot of practice and only works well on heavier material (like 1/8" or thicker). The aluminum stick rods are expensive, require the same level of cleanliness as MIG, are prone to burn through and produce fairly ugly welds as well as being extremely hygroscopic (the flux on them soaks up water out of the air quicker than dessicant). So if you don't store them in a sealed, heated cabinet, airborne water vapor will ruin them in a few days. So don't buy anymore aluminum stick than you need to do the job at hand or you'll be throwing it away.

The smaller 110V wire feed machines (Miller or Lincoln) work pretty well on steel using flux core wire. Once you get the hang of it (proper hold off, heat range and wire speed tuning is essential), you can do fairly decent welds on steel up to 1/4" thick with these, but it may take two or three passes on the same joint (along with wire brushing the flux off after each pass). I've used these little machines very successfully on exhaust system work and light fabrication. It's a lot like stick welding, except you don't have to keep stopping, dropping the stub and loading a new stick. Using the gas conversion kits for these little machines (i.e. MIG, Metal Inert Gas) will produce prettier welds, but once again cleanliness is the real key (no paint, grease, rust, mill scale, etc. present at or around the joint).

Keep in mind that most of the "consumer" grade small welders have a 20% duty cycle. What that means is, at maximum output, for every 2 minutes you weld, you need to let the machine cool for about 10 minutes. The Miller Cricket for example has built in thermal protection, so when you reach it's duty cycle, it simply shuts off and won't let you weld until the temperature of the machine comes back down. That can be really aggravating, so make sure you buy enough machine to handle the workload you intend to put it through. For most of us, that means a machine with 40% duty cycle (100% duty cycle machines are for heavy industrial and manufacturing applications and cost big $$$).

Make sure you buy a good machine (like Miller, Lincoln, Hobart or Esab) that you can easily get consumables (e.g. tips, shrouds, liners, etc.) and parts for. The initial expense will be a bit higher than the no-name machines from Harbor Freight or Northern, but you'll have greater reliability, get better results and a longer useable life. If you can't get parts or consumbables locally, you'll end up buying a good machine later anyway.

My gut feeling is you'll be looking for a 175 to 250 class MIG machine, with a spool gun. Realistically, for a new machine to do what you want, you're probably talking in the $1200 to $1500 range minimum for everything you'll need to get started (wire, gas, machine, spool gun, consumables, cart, gloves, hood, die grinder, burrs, wire brushes, hand grinder, wheels, clamps, etc.). You can probably do very well at an industrial bankruptcy auction (I've seen really nice, big machines with external feeders go for as little as $300), but be careful that you don't end up with a 3 phase commercial machine that you can't run at home. Be leary of used equipment, because a lot of times the seller is getting rid of a problem (especially spool guns). Just my $0.02 worth.

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87 TC, T-5 swap, billet quadrant / adj. cable, solid state IVR, fog light relay mod, PST suspension, KYB-AGX fronts, Gas-A-Just rears, K&N cone, billet alum BCV, med. red, 90's wing, polished snowflakes and centers, 195K+ Mi's., daily driver, feeding on ricers!

[This message has been edited by Nitro_X (edited 11-21-2004).]
87 TC, T-5 swap, billet quadrant / adj. cable, solid state IVR, fog light relay mod, PST suspension, KYB-AGX fronts, Gas-A-Just rears, K&N cone, billet alum BCV, med. red, 90's wing, polished snowflakes and centers, 195K+ Mi's., daily driver, feeding on ricers!
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GaryS#2 Offline
Posting Freak
#10
If it was me, for 50/50 and mostly lighter material, like exhaust and intercooler piping fabrication, I would go direct to a small TIG setup like Linclon 175 Pro.
I could get by with just this machine but for bodywork and heavy steel like 1/4" I still prefer my MIG.
It is hard to pick unless you really know what you will do most.
Almost like saying, I like my 4x4 for offroad, but my T-bird is great on the highway, wich one would you keep?
Grocery Getter/Rice Cooker.
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