North American Turbocoupe Organization



tuning hardware
turbo_crazy Offline
Senior Member
#1
i'm looking into which way i want to go about tuning. right now, it's a stock LA2. i'm looking on the moates site and i'm confusing myself more and more by the minute. the F3 sounds like it's really what i may need, BUT is it able to be tuned with any program or does a chip burner have to be used? i'm not tuning it, since i'm more of a nut and bolt, cut and weld kind of car guy. is it worth it or am i just wizzing in the wind and should just stick with getting QH? i won't be doing any of the tuning or data logging, so after it's tuned (by a professional), i won't be messing with it at all. please help un-confuse me. lol
87 TC: 5spd, started B234F head swap (overall setup changing), Quarterhorse, T3/T4 63 a/r, 3" exhaust, walbro 255, tubular front clip, 5 lug swap, 17x8 front/17x9 rear cobra r's, wilwood 4 piston calipers (rear only, for now), lightened 471lbs so far
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Skunk Offline
Junior Member
#2
If someone else is tuning it, you really need to see what they use. Most tuners stick with what they know and wont be much help if you bring your own stuff that they have to learn.

If your wanting the ability to adjust things yourself........ your best bet is either the Quarterhorse or Tweecer RT due to the datalogging ability so you can actually see whats going on. Either way you should/need to shell out for BE as the choice for the software.

The F3 is just a chip that you burn your BIN onto via the chip burner. You still need a way (program)to edit the BIN file. Every time you want to make a change you need to pull the F3 put in on the burner and re-write it. Again you need to find out if the tuners hardware will work with your chip or you can buy the burner from moates and it comes with the burning software.

There are other choices out there depending on what you want to do but they are in my opinion a little more involved requiring you to basically write the entire tune yourself. Not a great option if your not doing it yourself unless you have plenty of money to throw at a tuner.

John
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turbo_crazy Offline
Senior Member
#3
I have an ms1 box and harness in my closet, but I'm looking to do the unheard of, by running a stock ecu (with obvious supporting hardware) with a b234f head. The guy I contacted about my tune is familar with BE, so I guess it's back to QH. The 1 major question I've been seeking an answer to is, will my premium fuel switch still be usable AND will both tunes (premium switch on vs. off) be modified by the QH and BE? I'd love to have a street tune and a race tune, for obvious reasons, if possible.
87 TC: 5spd, started B234F head swap (overall setup changing), Quarterhorse, T3/T4 63 a/r, 3" exhaust, walbro 255, tubular front clip, 5 lug swap, 17x8 front/17x9 rear cobra r's, wilwood 4 piston calipers (rear only, for now), lightened 471lbs so far
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Skunk Offline
Junior Member
#4
I cant make comment on whats involved with the Volvo head or what tuning requirements are needed, but, if your using the stock computer with any of piggyback tuning hardware, your premium fuel switch will still be functional.

The switch wont actually provide a street or race tune option. It can only switch between the two timing tables. So if you just want to run 2 different timing options your good to go. Just have the tuner edit both tables.

If you go with the QH or the Tweecer RT...... you can make multiple selectable tunes to accomplish what your after via a separate switch. Then you can use your fuel switch to select timing advance for water/meth injection vs just fuel if your meth tank runs empty for example. Same applies if you also want to give it a shot of Nitrous. You can even make a valet type tune just incase you ever need to let someone else drive your car and don't want them to destroy it.

Last note on your choice of hardware...... You have the MS already.... I know its more involved but you will be able to do so much more with it over the factory set-up.... why not use it? The QH is a great option. With one shortfall. It relies on a battery to store your tune. Battery dies..... your dead in the water if the car wont run without the tune unless you have a spare battery and your laptop handy to rewrite it. You can keep an F3 in the glove box with a safe get home tune. But that's a pain if your ECU is tucked back into the kick panel. The Tweecer stores your tune internally indefinitely as does the F3. Im not trying to sell you on anything here, do what works for you. I can say ive been very happy using the Tweecer RT and BE to tune with. I have two cars with modified tunes, I use one Tweecer to tune both and an F3 to put in the car Im not tuning. I works for me.

John
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turbo_crazy Offline
Senior Member
#5
I thought the premium fuel switch played with the fuel table, too. So I guess I'll just toss it or repurpose it for QH. As far as a dead battery goes, I run marine batteries, so I'm a little safe, there. I can save a backup tune in my laptop for security purposes, but it'd still leave me tuneless when away from home. I was originally going to use the ms for this build, but I want to take the road less traveled and make it less of a total fabrication type build. Uncharted territory and untested waters, for sure, but I want to prove you can get more for less, so to speak. Basically, show people that a typically few month project into a simplified weekend project. It's very doable and I want to prove it with my own r&d. This is why I haven't touched my motor yet, aside from tearing it down to inspect my internals and wash/oil the block. TwEECer is a bit more pricey, but I can see the definite benefit of not losing your tune, just because of a loss of power. I'll have to remember not to disconnect my battery when I'm away from home lol
87 TC: 5spd, started B234F head swap (overall setup changing), Quarterhorse, T3/T4 63 a/r, 3" exhaust, walbro 255, tubular front clip, 5 lug swap, 17x8 front/17x9 rear cobra r's, wilwood 4 piston calipers (rear only, for now), lightened 471lbs so far
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Skunk Offline
Junior Member
#6
Sorry for the confusion....... I mean the QH has its own battery on the circuit board, not your car battery.


John
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Sophosis Offline
Member
#7
Yea, it uses a watch battery, 2032 I think?, right on the QH board. Mine is sitting at 6yrs old now.. starting to rub my hands a bit.. I really should pull it and replace.

I'm actually beginning to consider one of the Megasquirt options.. it's either that or break down and learn how to disassemble and reassemble the binary for the LA3. I want some options that currently don't exist or have been changed on my MAF tune. (More timing rows, ACT sensor returns, ACT effects timing, look at maybe changing injector behavior, etc) .. because of that list, I'm considering Megasquirt. Don't know yet, need to do more research. Messing with assembler doesn't scare me.
1988 Turbo Coupe
- 0.020 Diamonds w/stock rods, T3 w/stock IC, BoPort 1.5 cam, LA3 w/QH on MAF, water/meth
- 5-lug swap, 31-spline, 4.10s, vacuum brakes, PBR front brakes, 2000 Mustang GT 17" rims
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Skunk Offline
Junior Member
#8
Sophosis Wrote:I'm actually beginning to consider one of the Megasquirt options.. it's either that or break down and learn how to disassemble and reassemble the binary for the LA3. I want some options that currently don't exist or have been changed on my MAF tune. (More timing rows, ACT sensor returns, ACT effects timing, look at maybe changing injector behavior, etc) .. because of that list, I'm considering Megasquirt. Don't know yet, need to do more research. Messing with assembler doesn't scare me.


Seems theres always a trade off. To get something .... you have to lose something. Depending on how much time you want to invest in learning how, then actually making an assembly work, you may be better off taking the MS or Stingers Pimp route.

Ive actually considered attempting to use a 5.0 Mustang ECU for the 2.3T. Ive been able to tune the A3M1 on my turbo 5.0L with good results. It appears to be able to run a 4cyl engine in either batch fire or sequential injection. The only safeguards its missing is Knock and BCS control. I can live without the BCS and the programing for knock control is there but its lacking the add on board to control it. Ive always wondered if the Knock Board in our ECUs is compatible for a transplant but I just never got that deep into it.

John
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turbo_crazy Offline
Senior Member
#9
Oh, so the loss is inevitable, at some point. Easy enough to handle. Just change the battery every so often when I have my laptop handy, reload the tune and be on my way, again. Sucky part is, I have to get someone to set a startup tune before I even try starting it, because I'm wired for speed density, now
87 TC: 5spd, started B234F head swap (overall setup changing), Quarterhorse, T3/T4 63 a/r, 3" exhaust, walbro 255, tubular front clip, 5 lug swap, 17x8 front/17x9 rear cobra r's, wilwood 4 piston calipers (rear only, for now), lightened 471lbs so far
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Dan S Offline
Administrator
#10
Before you jump in totally, take a long hard look at the PiMP. Most of the fears you have listed in the thread are lessened or not present with the PiMP. As for the inital tune, it's not that hard. I had no experience what so ever when I started, but now mine is running better than it ever did in stock condition. There is still room for improvement (me and the tuning) but I have not gone to a dyno since I started.

Tell us more about your tubular front clip (including pics).
Dan S
Custom 88 TC, Mandarin Copper Pearl Metallic
http://natomessageboard.com/ubbthreads.p...5#comments
1972 Ford F-100 SWB Styleside
2015 Lincoln MKC 2.3 EcoBoost AWD
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