North American Turbocoupe Organization



Tuners?
Harvs Offline
Senior Member
#1
Ok, what is a EEC tuner going to do for me?

i would like to get larger injectors, what kind of management system do i need, what does it do?

Where can i get these?

thanks, Adam



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1988 turbocoupe with 88k, t3 super 60 turbo, disconnected KS, 3 inch down pipe no cat, with 2.5 inch ss ATRs, adjustible FPR, 255hp fuel pump, star spec stage 3 with stage 3 pressure plate, dual pillar pod with a/f and boost gauges, 3.90 gears, 140 speedo, hurst short throw, and GN intercooler
Sandlewood beige 88 coupe 93k/ super 60 T3 at 24 pounds/ ATR 3" no cat or tail pipe/ 255lph high pressure pump/ Kirban AFPR at 42/ Spec stg3/ GN FMIC/ 1g DSM BOV/ 14* timing/ disconected KS/ Tri-ax short throw/ Autometer boost,vac and air to fuel/ 140 spedo/ Ford motorsports 5300-c springs/ tubular rear upper cntrl arms.
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Glenn 88TC Offline
Posting Freak
#2
You get it here. Make sure you get the PCMX software to aide in ease of use.
http://www.powerbydesign.biz/Merchant2/m...erbydesign

It will allow you to change almost anything the eec does. Best to to have it done on the dyno by an experienced pro.

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mods: SDS Digital Fuel Injection, ported & polished big valve head(1.89/1.59), .500 lift roller cam, custom upper and ported lower intakes, 60-1 stage III .63 turbo, powerstroke intercooler, 60mm throttle body, 75pph injectors, Walboro 255HP pump, Kirban adj. fuel reg., ATR header, 3" exhaust with Dynomax Ultraflow muffler, MSD 6al, MSD coil, MSD Launch Control, MSD 8.5mm wires, K&N filter, Star stage III clutch, Greddy Profec B boost controller, Weld Draglites with M/T ET Street 26x11.5/15
NO TC and NO headaches.
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Harvs Offline
Senior Member
#3
So the tuner is 380 and the powertrain control module is 140. Do i buy it, and when i get it dynoed they put it all in, or do i have to put it in, and then take it there and they tume it?
Sandlewood beige 88 coupe 93k/ super 60 T3 at 24 pounds/ ATR 3" no cat or tail pipe/ 255lph high pressure pump/ Kirban AFPR at 42/ Spec stg3/ GN FMIC/ 1g DSM BOV/ 14* timing/ disconected KS/ Tri-ax short throw/ Autometer boost,vac and air to fuel/ 140 spedo/ Ford motorsports 5300-c springs/ tubular rear upper cntrl arms.
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Glenn 88TC Offline
Posting Freak
#4
Quote:Originally posted by Harvs:
So the tuner is 380 and the powertrain control module is 140. Do i buy it, and when i get it dynoed they put it all in, or do i have to put it in, and then take it there and they tume it?

You install it and they connect it to their laptop to tune. You might as well get the larger injectors before having it tuned. The person that sells them will give you a very good(so I hear) starting tune. If you just get it to run the larger injectors and keep the basic stock setup it will be fine till you can get it tuned professionally.

Next queston is why do you think you need larger injectors? They aren't needed till you hit around the 300HP level.

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mods: SDS Digital Fuel Injection, ported & polished big valve head(1.89/1.59), .500 lift roller cam, custom upper and ported lower intakes, 60-1 stage III .63 turbo, powerstroke intercooler, 60mm throttle body, 75pph injectors, Walboro 255HP pump, Kirban adj. fuel reg., ATR header, 3" exhaust with Dynomax Ultraflow muffler, MSD 6al, MSD coil, MSD Launch Control, MSD 8.5mm wires, K&N filter, Star stage III clutch, Greddy Profec B boost controller, Weld Draglites with M/T ET Street 26x11.5/15
NO TC and NO headaches.
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Harvs Offline
Senior Member
#5
Next queston is why do you think you need larger injectors? They aren't needed till you hit around the 300HP level.

[/B][/QUOTE]

im just trying to gather all the things i need to know, because im plan on building the car up soon, head, cam, hybrid, fmic, header, msd stuff, ported everything. I would love to make big power out of it, i trying to figure out what it takes to get to my 350 rwhp goal.

[This message has been edited by Harvs (edited 11-23-2003).]
Sandlewood beige 88 coupe 93k/ super 60 T3 at 24 pounds/ ATR 3" no cat or tail pipe/ 255lph high pressure pump/ Kirban AFPR at 42/ Spec stg3/ GN FMIC/ 1g DSM BOV/ 14* timing/ disconected KS/ Tri-ax short throw/ Autometer boost,vac and air to fuel/ 140 spedo/ Ford motorsports 5300-c springs/ tubular rear upper cntrl arms.
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Glenn 88TC Offline
Posting Freak
#6
Quote:Originally posted by Harvs:

im just trying to gather all the things i need to know, because im plan on building the car up soon, head, cam, hybrid, fmic, header, msd stuff, ported everything. I would love to make big power out of it, i trying to figure out what it takes to get to my 350 rwhp goal.

[This message has been edited by Harvs (edited 11-23-2003).][/B]

Another question. How much power are you looking to make? The tuner for the 2.3T is being used by many people. The person I recomneded you to buy from has the most powerful car at around 390rwhp. If you want more than that you might want to look into a true dfi. Get all your ducks in a row on what parts you want. Then get pricing and see if you till want to go that route. It will get very expensive to get big(350+rwhp) power. Then you need to do it or change your plan of attack. Keep in mind that if it takes a year to get all the parts the car might not be too good on performance till everything gets done.


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mods: SDS Digital Fuel Injection, ported & polished big valve head(1.89/1.59), .500 lift roller cam, custom upper and ported lower intakes, 60-1 stage III .63 turbo, powerstroke intercooler, 60mm throttle body, 75pph injectors, Walboro 255HP pump, Kirban adj. fuel reg., ATR header, 3" exhaust with Dynomax Ultraflow muffler, MSD 6al, MSD coil, MSD Launch Control, MSD 8.5mm wires, K&N filter, Star stage III clutch, Greddy Profec B boost controller, Weld Draglites with M/T ET Street 26x11.5/15
NO TC and NO headaches.
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Harvs Offline
Senior Member
#7
Hey Glenn, Do you have the complete page on turbos that was at turboford a while back, i cant seem to find it. I would like to study turbo sizes and figure out my soon to come hybrid?

[This message has been edited by Harvs (edited 11-23-2003).]
Sandlewood beige 88 coupe 93k/ super 60 T3 at 24 pounds/ ATR 3" no cat or tail pipe/ 255lph high pressure pump/ Kirban AFPR at 42/ Spec stg3/ GN FMIC/ 1g DSM BOV/ 14* timing/ disconected KS/ Tri-ax short throw/ Autometer boost,vac and air to fuel/ 140 spedo/ Ford motorsports 5300-c springs/ tubular rear upper cntrl arms.
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Glenn 88TC Offline
Posting Freak
#8
Quote:Originally posted by Harvs:
Hey Glenn, Do you have the complete page on turbos that was at turboford a while back, i cant seem to find it. I would like to study turbo sizes and figure out my soon to come hybrid?

[This message has been edited by Harvs (edited 11-23-2003).]

Here is the list I remember. I will say these are not MY recommendations in this list.

GREG O'Brien
Moderator
Member # 25
Member Rated:
posted 10-06-2002 11:35 PM                         
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I took the time to calculate at MANY different VE percentages and I am still satified with the maps.
I just talked my new turbo guy on Friday night and went over all them maps with him basically... (he's pretty patient)
40 and 46trim - good for 35 and 40 #/min respectively. - neither is as efficient as the 50 trim and they are probably best reserved for when you are looking to get absolutely the BEST possible response out of your T3/T4 setup and are willing to trade 100hp of airflow capacity for a *very slight* improvement in response
50 trim - good up for anything up to ~48#/min (480hp give or take) and it fits an iron headed 2.3/2.5L really well and it'll support 30psi with 70-78% efficiency across the board.
54 and 57 trim - he says he has had problem with compressor surge with these in the past on smaller motors like the 2.3L - surge so bad it even destroyed a few wheels. When you plot the points this is obvious. PLUS they both flow less air than the 50 trim. I really DON'T recommend that anyone use these wheels if they have another option at a similiar price... I still don't know why so many people do. Alot of turbo shops push them though because they are common and cheap - especially used ones. SO they can make a good buck on them.
60 trim - in alot of ways it is kinda silly to go with a T04E-60. It has roughly the same HP as the 50 trim and if you are going to go with a limited pressure ratio (~23psi) like on the 60 trim - just step up a 60-1 - they are REALLY close in size and characteristics - but the 60-1 has WAY more airflow capability and comparable efficiency when it is in a T04E housing.
60-1 - Supports up to ~60#/min and a max of under 25psi - but still is only 3.00" big like all the above wheels - so it is still quite responsive. Not the most efficent turbo (has alot of area under 70% efficiency) and it won't like more than 25psi - but it ain't too bad. Probably a good choice for a stroker motor or a motor with higher compression than won't need huge boost levels.
TS04 - Supports up to 55#/min and sees up to 35psi - it is ~ 3.25" big but it can still be driven by a stage III T3 - so response is still VERY streetable. Efficiency is in the realm of 70-77% for just about ANY 2.3/2.5L motor up to 35psi which is pretty good!
T61 - Supports ~65 #/min and sees up to 40 PSI! it has a great surge line and is really quite efficient. But unfortunately it is a big 3.5"+ wheel... not so good for the street. Probably won't work well with a T31/stage III T3... so you'll need either a GT350/Stage V wheel or a T04 turbine in either a T3 or a T4 turbine housing. I wouldn't recommend the GT350/Stage V - the Buick guys have been having really problems with them flying apart. So that leaves the T4 turbine wheel which needs a serious motor to push it.
So if you want an easy guide to turbos:
1) 2.3L or 2.5L with an iron head (less than 475hp at the flywheel):
T04E-50 with a stage III T3 and a .63 A/R
2) 2.3L or 2.5L with an aluminum head (more than 475hp at the flywheel):
a tossup between the 60-1 and the TS04 with a stage III T3 turbine .63A/R... judgement call - depends on whether you want, under ~23psi (60-1) or over 23psi (TS04).
3) 2.3L to 2.85L+ race only with an aluminum head (more than 550hp at the flywheel)
tossup between the 60-1/stageIII and the T61/TO4... judgment call - depends on whether you want under ~23psi (60-1) or over 23psi (T61)
NOTE:
you'll notice i never mentioned a .48 A/R housing... that is because Randy did a dyno test of the .48 and the .63 housing on a T3/T4 and the result showed that the .48 didn't make hp/torque ANY earlier in the powerband - all it does was knock a good deal of hp off the hp peak. This may or maynot hold true for a full T3 - but it is certainly interesting.



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mods: SDS Digital Fuel Injection, ported & polished big valve head(1.89/1.59), .500 lift roller cam, custom upper and ported lower intakes, 60-1 stage III .63 turbo, powerstroke intercooler, 60mm throttle body, 75pph injectors, Walboro 255HP pump, Kirban adj. fuel reg., ATR header, 3" exhaust with Dynomax Ultraflow muffler, MSD 6al, MSD coil, MSD Launch Control, MSD 8.5mm wires, K&N filter, Star stage III clutch, Greddy Profec B boost controller, Weld Draglites with M/T ET Street 26x11.5/15
NO TC and NO headaches.
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Harvs Offline
Senior Member
#9
thanks glenn,
I was thinking of a t3/t04e 50 trim with stage 3 turbine and a .63a/r. You think theres much of a difference between the 57 and the 50 trim?
Sandlewood beige 88 coupe 93k/ super 60 T3 at 24 pounds/ ATR 3" no cat or tail pipe/ 255lph high pressure pump/ Kirban AFPR at 42/ Spec stg3/ GN FMIC/ 1g DSM BOV/ 14* timing/ disconected KS/ Tri-ax short throw/ Autometer boost,vac and air to fuel/ 140 spedo/ Ford motorsports 5300-c springs/ tubular rear upper cntrl arms.
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Noname
Guest
#10
I advise to skip the tuner entirely (which comes packaged from randy with the PCMX software for $480, last i saw) and just go with an SDS system if you legitimately intend to make 350 or more hp to the wheels.

The eec tuner is just fine up to the ~300rwhp point (which can conceivably be obtained with a stock EEC and some added fuel pressure), but make much power above that and the computer has no way to measure the additional airflow and add the fuel accordingly. The VAM itself will also become a much larger restriction as hp levels increase. I'm sure Glenn can attest that he gained hp simply from swapping from the stock computer setup to the SDS alone, even without much tuning.

The $995 pricetag might sound intimidating, but I personally feel it'd be a worthy investment if you sincerely intend to make a lot of power. Discounts are also available for group purchases. In fact...I've been quite interested in getting a system for myself and have been tempted to post on TF about starting up another group buy. If you (or anybody else) are / is interested, let me know.

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Estoril blue 1987 TC 5spd, 141k miles
PRofec B electronic boost controller, kirban fpr, walbro 255 pump, Bailey BOV, Spearco 26x8x3 FMIC, a237 cam, t3/t4 50 trim / stage III .63, 3" exhaust, eec-tuner, 55pph injectors,
Best 1/4 mile: 13.64 (with 2.19 60' time) @ 102.91mph And that was on 93 octane [Image: wink.gif]

[This message has been edited by SteveXX82 (edited 11-23-2003).]
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