North American Turbocoupe Organization



Timing advance issues
bigbronco Offline
Member
#1
I have a motor, tranny, & ecm out of an 88 T-coupe.

I have been having issues with the turbo spooling up very slowly.

1) If I set the timing to 10* (spout out), plug the spout back in, and drive, the car doesn't boost in til' 5K in 1st gear, 4K in 2nd, ect.


2) If I lock the timing in at 24*, it boost considerably quicker-- 3,500 1st gear, 3K 2nd gear, ect.

At the drag strip, I gained 7 mph (back to back runs) between scenario #1 & #2. The car is definately not running up to its potential and I'm trying to get it sorted out.

Outside of the spool characteristics, the car runs great.

I went to the junkyard and bought another distributor and nothing changed...

Why does it spool so much slower when relying on the ECM for timing? Suggestions?


Combo:
HX35 set @ 18 psi
FMIC
AFPR
Knife edged lower
Custom, 3" upper
~60mm throttle body
3" mandrel bent downpipe and exhaust

Have a good day!
Michael D.
2003 Ford F150 Supercrew
Stroked BBF
Garrett 98mm turbo

96 Mustang
2.3t
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turbocoupes Offline
Senior Member
#2
need more info...from the beginning...from what I'm reading...I'd want to know what cam and how is it set...please double,triple ck cam timing before answering please...fuel pressure??? hoses to and from turbo/intercooler IN PLACE and clamps tight??? wastegate functioning properly and at specified dump psi???
Garry McVey "BIRDS OF A FEATHER" TBird TC owners are usually wingin' it
TC's 83 project, 86 donor for 83, 86 FUN street car daily driver with speed equipment from Red 88 donor, 87 blue to be stock street car, 87 red donor for blue and others, 87 red donor, 88 street and strip(now a donor) 14.01 chasin 13.0's, 87 XR4ti project,
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bigbronco Offline
Member
#3
The cam is the stock 88 Tbird cam. Since I don't have an adjustable cam gear installed, it's at the factory setting.

Cam timing:
Assuming I am using the correct process to check the cam timing, I am sure that it is correct.

I carefully bring the engine to TDC with a screw driver in the #1 cylinder. FYI: when the engine is at TDC, the timing marks line up on the timing cover. I take a string from the center bolt of the aux shaft to the center bolt of the cam pulley. The string goes directly over the 'mark' on cam pulley.

The first time I checked this, it was off by one tooth. Since fixed, I have checked it many times and it is always fine. I most recently checked it two days ago when I tried the junkyard distributor.


Fuel Pressure:
I am 95% sure the fuel pressure is @ 42 psi (with the hose on).


Hoses/connections:
All hoses are held on by T-bolt clamps and are in good shape. I blew a hose about two weeks ago. Upon its replacement, I checked all remaining hoses, clamps, ect., everything is in good shape.


Wastegate:
The wastegate opens @ 18 psi and holds (except when the weather is cold). When I first got this turbo running, I found that the wastegate actuator didn't have enough preload. I fixed that. I will verify that later today though.


If you need/want any more info, just let me know. If I don't know it, I will find out. I am ready to get this car running up to its full potential.

Have a good day!
Michael
2003 Ford F150 Supercrew
Stroked BBF
Garrett 98mm turbo

96 Mustang
2.3t
Reply

turbocoupes Offline
Senior Member
#4
I still question the cam timing or camshaft...Bushwacker on TF had a timing issue with his engine...had to run 55* advanced for it to run "decent" it ended up being the cam. The "string" is a good trick...just ckd with a engine in my basement and it works inline with the factory cam timing mark pointer. This is sounding like either a timing/advance mechanicl/electrical issue or a boost type concern. I'll keep thinkin...
Garry McVey "BIRDS OF A FEATHER" TBird TC owners are usually wingin' it
TC's 83 project, 86 donor for 83, 86 FUN street car daily driver with speed equipment from Red 88 donor, 87 blue to be stock street car, 87 red donor for blue and others, 87 red donor, 88 street and strip(now a donor) 14.01 chasin 13.0's, 87 XR4ti project,
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bigbronco Offline
Member
#5
Can you explain "Boost type concern" a little more?

From my reasoning, I 'think' it is a timing issue. The reason being it it boost fine when I have the timing locked in @ 24*. If it was boost related, I wouldn't think the timing would affect it that much.

Do these distributors have a mechanical advance? Or is it all electrical?

Have a good day!
Michael
2003 Ford F150 Supercrew
Stroked BBF
Garrett 98mm turbo

96 Mustang
2.3t
Reply

turbocoupes Offline
Senior Member
#6
I tend to agree with the timing ...slow boost concern...flow from the head thru the turbo thru the exhaust like a leak or clogged cat...compressor airflow blockage or loosing flow like a leak. advance is from the computor. When ya plugged the spout back in reck timing to be sure its working properly...should advance...
Garry McVey "BIRDS OF A FEATHER" TBird TC owners are usually wingin' it
TC's 83 project, 86 donor for 83, 86 FUN street car daily driver with speed equipment from Red 88 donor, 87 blue to be stock street car, 87 red donor for blue and others, 87 red donor, 88 street and strip(now a donor) 14.01 chasin 13.0's, 87 XR4ti project,
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bigbronco Offline
Member
#7
Set the base timing @ 10* (spout out) and plug spout back in. If I free rev the engine to ~3k, the timing goes to 47*. It done this with both distributors.

I don't know what the timing is doing when under a load.

The exhaust is comprised of 3" mandrel bends and a single Hooker Aeromax (basically a glass pack).

You help is greatly appreciated.

Have a good day!
Michael
2003 Ford F150 Supercrew
Stroked BBF
Garrett 98mm turbo

96 Mustang
2.3t
Reply

Pete D Offline
Administrator
#8
The mechanical advance is the 10* you dial in with the spout out. When you replace the spout, then the computer adds ANOTHER 20* +/-3*.

It is runs like crap at 10* and spout in and then runs much better with 24* locked in, you have a timing issue, either cam or distributor.
Pete Dunham


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turbocoupes Offline
Senior Member
#9
What Pete said...this is at idle...so idle with spout in should be say 20* to 30*...lets see belt,tensioner,aux. shaft or bearing,loose aux. shaft gear,cam,dist,spout, if timing changes from 10BTDC to 20-30 with spout in the spout's ok...what else? what else? hmm hmm hmm...
Garry McVey "BIRDS OF A FEATHER" TBird TC owners are usually wingin' it
TC's 83 project, 86 donor for 83, 86 FUN street car daily driver with speed equipment from Red 88 donor, 87 blue to be stock street car, 87 red donor for blue and others, 87 red donor, 88 street and strip(now a donor) 14.01 chasin 13.0's, 87 XR4ti project,
Reply

bigbronco Offline
Member
#10
Spout out = 10*
Spout in = 24*
Spout in + 3K = 47*

Either way, it drives around town just fine. I have driven many miles with it set both ways. The only real difference in the way it runs is the spool up time (and the corresponding power).

Timing locked @ 24* = good, fast spool
Computer controlled timing = slow spool

Have a good day!
Michael
2003 Ford F150 Supercrew
Stroked BBF
Garrett 98mm turbo

96 Mustang
2.3t
Reply





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