North American Turbocoupe Organization



Super quick transmission question
Tedybear315 Offline
Junior Member
#1
Quick for the group.  Yeah I could cut the line out and take it to the parts store, but I hate making several trips.

'88 Turbo Coupe with the infamous A4LD.   Had an extremely prolonged engagement in both drive and reverse.

Checked fluid:  Not on the dippystick.   I dropped in 1 1/2ounce of leak detector and refilled.  Leak presented itself.  Where the cooler lines are 'hung' just above the starter on the lower mount bar for the turbo unit.  One of the lines had a nice glow to it with a black light.

Going to splice in 2 sections where that mount bracket is.  Question:  Does anyone off the top of their heads know what size transmission lines they used?  I'd like to hit the parts store with 4 connectors (probably compression fittings,  I've had good luck with them)  And splice in new lines at that bracket.   Can't see using hose as it's uncomfortably close by to the exhaust and turbo...  Steel line would be best IMHO.

So would anyone know off hand what size transmission line they used?  I've got the car cooling off in the 'shop' for the time being. 

Thanks!!
S-
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Kuch Offline
Senior Member
#2
Most trans lines that I have seen have been either 3/8 or 5/16 lines. I would buy a few pieces of each size that way you have some choices to work with once you get yours cut apart. You can always return what you don't use anyways. It sucks, but whenever you have to make something work from non-stock, there is going to be multiple trips to the store to get the little things that may not originally be needed.
1988 Turbo Coupe, Black/Black, 5 Speed, Moonroof,  T3/T4 50 trim, ported E6, 255LPH, Kirban, 3" DP dual 2.5" w Hooker Maxflows, MGW shifter, K&N, Gillis valve, RR cam, Koni's
1964 Ford Galaxie 500XL, 390 6V, 4 Speed, Vast and fast
1960 Ford Starliner, 292 Y Block, 3 Speed, slow and low
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Jeff K Offline
Administrator
#3
Several years ago one of the tranny cooler lines on my 95 Taurus Vulcan winter beater developed a leak due to rust. I just cut a large section of the rusted line out and replaced it with tranny cooler hose. Zip tied the hose up so it didnt contact any hot or moving parts. Been fine for years.
Jeff Korn

88 Turbo Coupe: Intake and exhaust mods, T3 turbo at 24 psi, forced air IC, water injection, BPV, Ranger cam, subframes, etc., etc.
86 Tbird 5.0 (original owner): intake, exhaust, valvetrain mods, 100 HP N2O, ignition, gears, suspension, etc., etc.
05 Taurus SEL Duratec daily driver
04 Taurus Duratec (wifes car)
02 Pontiac Grand Prix GT
95 Taurus GL Vulcan winter beater
67 Honda 450 Super Sport - completely customized
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Tedybear315 Offline
Junior Member
#4
I was considering using just hose, but I noted the two lines where they where first leaking  (wait for it.......don't get ahead of me too far!)  At the retainer for the turbo mount. 

It's a bit close to all that heat from the turbo unit, and steel would probably be a better choice that close to the exhaust.

So I used a day yesterday with the UV dye  (fantastic stuff!!  Can't recommend it any higher!).

Cut out the bad section of the line and have a sample size in the other car to get a spool of steel line.  Just as easy and in the long run more economical.   Pre fab line isn't something the locally source, and I can do double or single flares and compression joints if needed.

Here's the fun part!

The UV dye started seeping out about 2" from the transmission.  It didn't get bent or kinked...no harsh 'touching'.  The metal is still very thick and doesn't show any signs of rot or rust.   The fluid is slowly seeping out of the steel itself likely due to extreme metal fatigue.  I had the UV light on it and cleaned it up...and watched as it slowly grew a nice "Green Glow" of fluid the size of a pencil eraser on both lines.

So I'm at an impasse.  I have bending and flare tools.  The part I'm clueless on?  I've had A4LD's in and out of our old Bronco II many times.  Each time it's been just a line with a flare going into the transmission for the cooler lines.  I've never had to deal with the press in line type that this one uses.  There's a few photos of replacement factory style types where the line goes into the connection with a white built in 'clip'.  But I've never had to remove/replace a line such as that.  I'm considering hitting a few salvage yards and seeing if I can locate a set of cooler 'adapters' that I can replace the 'clip' type with.  The only thing I found online is a huge number of people that have had the O-Ring leak after removing the line and replacing it.

For the moment I'm going to use a couple of short sections of trans hose over the steel to seal the leak.  And new line from that point forward.     Probably hit a few junk yards and see if I can scrounge up a set of fittings that I can put into use on ours.    I'll ask another question on a new thread about the oil leak we also found.  (UV dye again...) 

Should be interesting.  I'm used to lines rusting out.  Not just being solid looking, with fluid seeping out of it.

S-
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Tedybear315 Offline
Junior Member
#5
(06-15-2020, 04:36 PM)Tedybear315 Wrote: I was considering using just hose, but I noted the two lines where they where first leaking  (wait for it.......don't get ahead of me too far!)  At the retainer for the turbo mount. 

It's a bit close to all that heat from the turbo unit, and steel would probably be a better choice that close to the exhaust.

So I used a day yesterday with the UV dye  (fantastic stuff!!  Can't recommend it any higher!).

Cut out the bad section of the line and have a sample size in the other car to get a spool of steel line.  Just as easy and in the long run more economical.   Pre fab line isn't something the locally source, and I can do double or single flares and compression joints if needed.

Here's the fun part!

The UV dye started seeping out about 2" from the transmission.  It didn't get bent or kinked...no harsh 'touching'.  The metal is still very thick and doesn't show any signs of rot or rust.   The fluid is slowly seeping out of the steel itself likely due to extreme metal fatigue.  I had the UV light on it and cleaned it up...and watched as it slowly grew a nice "Green Glow" of fluid the size of a pencil eraser on both lines.

So I'm at an impasse.  I have bending and flare tools.  The part I'm clueless on?  I've had A4LD's in and out of our old Bronco II many times.  Each time it's been just a line with a flare going into the transmission for the cooler lines.  I've never had to deal with the press in line type that this one uses.  There's a few photos of replacement factory style types where the line goes into the connection with a white built in 'clip'.  But I've never had to remove/replace a line such as that.  I'm considering hitting a few salvage yards and seeing if I can locate a set of cooler 'adapters' that I can replace the 'clip' type with.  The only thing I found online is a huge number of people that have had the O-Ring leak after removing the line and replacing it.

For the moment I'm going to use a couple of short sections of trans hose over the steel to seal the leak.  And new line from that point forward.     Probably hit a few junk yards and see if I can scrounge up a set of fittings that I can put into use on ours.    I'll ask another question on a new thread about the oil leak we also found.  (UV dye again...) 

Should be interesting.  I'm used to lines rusting out.  Not just being solid looking, with fluid seeping out of it.

S-


Minor update:

Let it be known that I hate bending 3/8" steel tubing...  Okay, got that out of my system.  Lines are roughed in but I noted a lot of seepage on the lines going into the transmission.  I can't locate the 'quick connect' transmission lines that enter the transmission.  So I pulled one of the lines and NAPA compared it to fuel line.  Sense I have to do both,  They had a fuel line with about the same retainer and same size line.  Only difference is the length from the retainer to the end of the tip-  Is about 1/8" longer.  I'm hopeful that I can make it work. 

Lines are 'roughed' in and of course are not following the same path as 'factory'.  I'd love to see how a machine does a set of 90' bends all within a short distance of each other.  For us mere "Mortals" that's a tall order!    So it looks like it will be close to where it started.

On a side note:  I detest where they put that oil return line from the turbo.  Ours was already dripping oil (along with a valve cover leak) and I hate having to buy an entire gasket 'kit' for just the return oil gasket.  I'm going to order in a small sheet of that "Remflex" DIY material and make my own next time.  Supposedly that seals better then a Felpro gasket.


S-
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anasazi4st Offline
Senior Member
#6
(06-17-2020, 01:16 AM)Tedybear315 Wrote:
(06-15-2020, 04:36 PM)Tedybear315 Wrote: I was considering using just hose, but I noted the two lines where they where first leaking  (wait for it.......don't get ahead of me too far!)  At the retainer for the turbo mount. 

It's a bit close to all that heat from the turbo unit, and steel would probably be a better choice that close to the exhaust.

So I used a day yesterday with the UV dye  (fantastic stuff!!  Can't recommend it any higher!).

Cut out the bad section of the line and have a sample size in the other car to get a spool of steel line.  Just as easy and in the long run more economical.   Pre fab line isn't something the locally source, and I can do double or single flares and compression joints if needed.

Here's the fun part!

The UV dye started seeping out about 2" from the transmission.  It didn't get bent or kinked...no harsh 'touching'.  The metal is still very thick and doesn't show any signs of rot or rust.   The fluid is slowly seeping out of the steel itself likely due to extreme metal fatigue.  I had the UV light on it and cleaned it up...and watched as it slowly grew a nice "Green Glow" of fluid the size of a pencil eraser on both lines.

So I'm at an impasse.  I have bending and flare tools.  The part I'm clueless on?  I've had A4LD's in and out of our old Bronco II many times.  Each time it's been just a line with a flare going into the transmission for the cooler lines.  I've never had to deal with the press in line type that this one uses.  There's a few photos of replacement factory style types where the line goes into the connection with a white built in 'clip'.  But I've never had to remove/replace a line such as that.  I'm considering hitting a few salvage yards and seeing if I can locate a set of cooler 'adapters' that I can replace the 'clip' type with.  The only thing I found online is a huge number of people that have had the O-Ring leak after removing the line and replacing it.

For the moment I'm going to use a couple of short sections of trans hose over the steel to seal the leak.  And new line from that point forward.     Probably hit a few junk yards and see if I can scrounge up a set of fittings that I can put into use on ours.    I'll ask another question on a new thread about the oil leak we also found.  (UV dye again...) 

Should be interesting.  I'm used to lines rusting out.  Not just being solid looking, with fluid seeping out of it.

S-


Minor update:

Let it be known that I hate bending 3/8" steel tubing...  Okay, got that out of my system.  Lines are roughed in but I noted a lot of seepage on the lines going into the transmission.  I can't locate the 'quick connect' transmission lines that enter the transmission.  So I pulled one of the lines and NAPA compared it to fuel line.  Sense I have to do both,  They had a fuel line with about the same retainer and same size line.  Only difference is the length from the retainer to the end of the tip-  Is about 1/8" longer.  I'm hopeful that I can make it work. 

Lines are 'roughed' in and of course are not following the same path as 'factory'.  I'd love to see how a machine does a set of 90' bends all within a short distance of each other.  For us mere "Mortals" that's a tall order!    So it looks like it will be close to where it started.

On a side note:  I detest where they put that oil return line from the turbo.  Ours was already dripping oil (along with a valve cover leak) and I hate having to buy an entire gasket 'kit' for just the return oil gasket.  I'm going to order in a small sheet of that "Remflex" DIY material and make my own next time.  Supposedly that seals better then a Felpro gasket.


S-

I feel your pain. About 25 years ago I thought it would be a good idea to replace all the steel brake lines, which at that point were only 8 years old.

And of course I used off-the-shelf steel brake lines that I had to bend myself.

About a third of the way into it I was questioning why this seemed like a good idea.
Another proud dues-paying member.

1987 Turbo Coupe w/T5OD, 8.8 axle, grey smoke; most options. Got it in 1991 with 41K miles: 3 turbos, 2 heater cores, 1 T5OD full rebuild, 5 clutches, 1 head gasket, 2 Teves II ABS units, etc. later....
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Jeff K Offline
Administrator
#7
I have used NiCop (Nickel / Copper) brake line for years. I buy it on Ebay. Easy to cut, bend by hand, easy to double flare, and will never rust.It just develops a green oxide coating after several years. A win-win-win!

Only down side is it is around 2x the price of steel lines, but worth every penny, IMO.
Jeff Korn

88 Turbo Coupe: Intake and exhaust mods, T3 turbo at 24 psi, forced air IC, water injection, BPV, Ranger cam, subframes, etc., etc.
86 Tbird 5.0 (original owner): intake, exhaust, valvetrain mods, 100 HP N2O, ignition, gears, suspension, etc., etc.
05 Taurus SEL Duratec daily driver
04 Taurus Duratec (wifes car)
02 Pontiac Grand Prix GT
95 Taurus GL Vulcan winter beater
67 Honda 450 Super Sport - completely customized
Reply

Tedybear315 Offline
Junior Member
#8
Well this job went from "Suck to Blow".  (Thank You Mel Brooks for that one....)

Ford in the infinite stupidity used quick connects as mentioned.  5/16" going into the transmission.  From there about 2" away the pipe kicks up to 3/8".  I'd love to see how that was machined!

So I picked up (and I'm sorry if this repeats) 5/16 steel fuel line from Napa, and arranged for compression unions from 5/16" x 3/8" to match the existing pipes.  Bad sections have been removed, etc..

The supply house has let me down.  Parts should have been to me on Monday, and so far nothing received at Fastenal's local branch.  They state the order was processed over a week ago, but no tracking as it was store to store transfer.

Cutting this back to size. 

Any thoughts on pulling ALL  the line(s) out and replacing with 5/16".  I can use compressions for a one to one from the steel to the nickle/copper that I can obtain from our local supply house.  (Which will suck, as I used the better part of a 3/8" roll to gut and replace the bad sections.)  If memory serves, Ford did the same nonsense at the radiator going from 3/8" to a 5/16" quick connect.  I'd have to double check. 

Any downfalls to changing it over to all 5/16"?   Wife wants her car back, and I need to finish up a few more projects.

Lame ford parts, as now I have to mix fuel line quick connect tubes which are all steel, over to glorified brake tubing....  Wife said to just clamp a hose onto it.  Can't see a 3/8" hose sealing onto a 5/16" steel line without risking leaks or blowing off.

S-
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anasazi4st Offline
Senior Member
#9
(06-25-2020, 05:51 PM)Tedybear315 Wrote: Well this job went from "Suck to Blow".  (Thank You Mel Brooks for that one....)

Ford in the infinite stupidity used quick connects as mentioned.  5/16" going into the transmission.  From there about 2" away the pipe kicks up to 3/8".  I'd love to see how that was machined!

So I picked up (and I'm sorry if this repeats) 5/16 steel fuel line from Napa, and arranged for compression unions from 5/16" x 3/8" to match the existing pipes.  Bad sections have been removed, etc..

The supply house has let me down.  Parts should have been to me on Monday, and so far nothing received at Fastenal's local branch.  They state the order was processed over a week ago, but no tracking as it was store to store transfer.

Cutting this back to size. 

Any thoughts on pulling ALL  the line(s) out and replacing with 5/16".  I can use compressions for a one to one from the steel to the nickle/copper that I can obtain from our local supply house.  (Which will suck, as I used the better part of a 3/8" roll to gut and replace the bad sections.)  If memory serves, Ford did the same nonsense at the radiator going from 3/8" to a 5/16" quick connect.  I'd have to double check. 

Any downfalls to changing it over to all 5/16"?   Wife wants her car back, and I need to finish up a few more projects.

Lame ford parts, as now I have to mix fuel line quick connect tubes which are all steel, over to glorified brake tubing....  Wife said to just clamp a hose onto it.  Can't see a 3/8" hose sealing onto a 5/16" steel line without risking leaks or blowing off.

S-

This is probably not what you want to hear, but I would keep it as original as possible.

As I’ve said many times, I prefer not to second-guess Ford’s engineers. Yeah, I’m sure they made a good many dumb choices, most of which I would bet were for cost-cutting reasons, but unless I am specifically told by someone here or at Ford that there is a better way (or it is obvious), I’m going with the OEM setup.

My feeling is, I didn’t go to engineering school, I wasn’t part of the Design Team for my car, so I don’t know why a particular decision was made—or not made. As such, any mods that I blindly make (without that expert advice or observation) are no better than asking my 9-year-old neighbor to fix the car.

I would prefer not to go down the “they’re all idiots, those engineers” path. I DO prefer to think there are logical good reasons why a decision was made, and hopefully just to save some $$ and not because they are, in fact, idiots.
Another proud dues-paying member.

1987 Turbo Coupe w/T5OD, 8.8 axle, grey smoke; most options. Got it in 1991 with 41K miles: 3 turbos, 2 heater cores, 1 T5OD full rebuild, 5 clutches, 1 head gasket, 2 Teves II ABS units, etc. later....
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Tedybear315 Offline
Junior Member
#10
(06-28-2020, 11:12 PM)anasazi4st Wrote:
(06-25-2020, 05:51 PM)Tedybear315 Wrote: Well this job went from "Suck to Blow".  (Thank You Mel Brooks for that one....)

Ford in the infinite stupidity used quick connects as mentioned.  5/16" going into the transmission.  From there about 2" away the pipe kicks up to 3/8".  I'd love to see how that was machined!

So I picked up (and I'm sorry if this repeats) 5/16 steel fuel line from Napa, and arranged for compression unions from 5/16" x 3/8" to match the existing pipes.  Bad sections have been removed, etc..

The supply house has let me down.  Parts should have been to me on Monday, and so far nothing received at Fastenal's local branch.  They state the order was processed over a week ago, but no tracking as it was store to store transfer.

Cutting this back to size. 

Any thoughts on pulling ALL  the line(s) out and replacing with 5/16".  I can use compressions for a one to one from the steel to the nickle/copper that I can obtain from our local supply house.  (Which will suck, as I used the better part of a 3/8" roll to gut and replace the bad sections.)  If memory serves, Ford did the same nonsense at the radiator going from 3/8" to a 5/16" quick connect.  I'd have to double check. 

Any downfalls to changing it over to all 5/16"?   Wife wants her car back, and I need to finish up a few more projects.

Lame ford parts, as now I have to mix fuel line quick connect tubes which are all steel, over to glorified brake tubing....  Wife said to just clamp a hose onto it.  Can't see a 3/8" hose sealing onto a 5/16" steel line without risking leaks or blowing off.

S-

This is probably not what you want to hear, but I would keep it as original as possible.

As I’ve said many times, I prefer not to second-guess Ford’s engineers. Yeah, I’m sure they made a good many dumb choices, most of which I would bet were for cost-cutting reasons, but unless I am specifically told by someone here or at Ford that there is a better way (or it is obvious), I’m going with the OEM setup.

My feeling is, I didn’t go to engineering school, I wasn’t part of the Design Team for my car, so I don’t know why a particular decision was made—or not made. As such, any mods that I blindly make (without that expert advice or observation) are no better than asking my 9-year-old neighbor to fix the car.

I would prefer not to go down the “they’re all idiots, those engineers” path. I DO prefer to think there are logical good reasons why a decision was made, and hopefully just to save some $$ and not because they are, in fact, idiots.


Well after turning a wrench professionally for 6 years, and continuing for another 24+ years as a hobby.  (changed careers, as my other training is electronics as well automotive)  Yeah, in this case they are idiots.  Probably did the quick connects to save assembly line time.

Each rubber seal in those 'quick connects' is rock hard and leaked like a sieve.  I am researching changing the fitting on the radiator and transmission over to a flared fitting.  I had that '89 Bronco II with the A4LD and it did use flare style fittings for the cooling lines.  Tomorrow I'll hit the Napa store and then a local transmission shop with the hard parts and see what can be arranged.  I'm at the point where if I need to re-plumb it back to 3/8" if that's all they have?  I'm okay with it.  That 5/16" end to a 3/8" line (in my humble opinion) was a time saver when designed, but long term sucked eggs....  (how does one suck eggs....and is that a bad thing?)

S-
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