North American Turbocoupe Organization



Need help on diagnosing a knock, top end noise.
Ramos617 Offline
Member
#1
Ok to make a long story short
I changed the orings on my injectors, replaced just the rotor on the distributor since the center contact was a bit damaged, buttoned everything back up and now I have a knock coming from the top end on my motor
All this happened while my car has been in the driveway, no crazy driving just maintenance and I get a knock???
Here's a link to the original thread I started with a video and more details:
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/show...-luck-help

I'm getting a bit frustrated here and already have lined up a deal to get a new used head from RDOG hoping this will eliminate the knock altogether

Any help is appreciated.
1987 T-Bird
Too much stuff to list
Running better than ever
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Pete D Offline
Administrator
#2
As others said, it sounds like valve train noise, ie the HLA(s) bled down. If you can keep it running you could stethoscope the injectors to see it it's a real noisy one, but I think more toward
excess clearance in the valves train.
Pete Dunham


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RDOG Offline
Posting Freak
#3
How long do you let it run when you hear the noise? Do you let it completely warm up? If the HLA's bed down while sitting for a long time in the driveway, they will be noisey. I once cahnged my H:A's to new ones and it took over an hour for them to fill. Just a thought. Can you post video here or on the fb page. It could help us diagnose the problem.

Also try an injector balance. Pull the injector clips one at a time while the car is running. Let us know if one of them has NO change when you pull it. If the engine bogs down when you do pull it thata good thing
1986 Turbo Coupe. Boport StageIII head, Boport 2.1, Performance Techniques 50 trim hybird, StageII.63, stinger 3" exhaust, Phenolic spacer, Boglog header,NPR FMIC intercooler setup, kirban fpr, bigrmotorsports fuel rail, diablo water meth kit, CAI, remote mount TFI, CHE rear adj control arms, MAC girdle, 8.8 rear disc, aluminum drive shaft, H&R lowerings springs Tbird Turbo Specific, y MAS!!
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Ramos617 Offline
Member
#4
I only let it run for about a minute or so total since its made the sound in my driveway. And no i have not let it warm up all the way.

It all started with just changing the injector o-rings, i drove my car into my driveway running just fine. When i finished up and started the car the noise was there.

I did install brand new HLAS and they are not making any noise.
I finally got my uncle to take a look at it since he's a mechanic by trade, we got it running and all cylinders are now firing
This whole time I thought it was a top end problem and we found out it was a bottom end knock
He said it is a crank or rod bearing
So what would be the most economical thing to do to fix this?
Full rebuild, just swap out the bearings if the crank isn't scored??
Should I pull out the motor to see exactly what it is?

Btw the engine has 190k miles and has never been rebuilt.
1987 T-Bird
Too much stuff to list
Running better than ever
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Scott Mabe Offline
Member
#5
You could try just changing the bearings, I wouldn't recommend it though especially with the mileage. I would take the opportunity to do it right, you will be happy with the outcome.
I've never rebuilt a 2.3, I've only built v8's but can't imagine it would be any harder. That being said, I would still do a complete rebuild. Invest in some precision measurement tools, calipers, micrometers, etc. Also find some quality bearings like clevite 77, there are coated bearings out now that offer huge benefits and protection from dry starts, I know because I make them at work. I would also invest in total seal gapless piston rings. They have a overlapping design that almost completely eliminates blowby, good for a few extra hp and a few extra in. of water vacuum on n/a engines. On our turbocharged engines we may see a significant increase in hp. ARP hardware is good insurance to make sure the engine holds together. And the final benefit is you have the opportunity to do some work to your intake, head, and exhaust manifold. While this is a job that some would send there parts to a engine shop to have ported and polished, it is something that any of us can do with a little patience and diligence. Just look for sharp edges and smooth things out overall, you don't have to take a ton of material off to see a big benefit.
Even though you can do most everything yourself, you may still want to consider taking everything to a engine shop to be align honed, deck and head flattened, and everything checked for cracks. All together not a cheap process, and you will get out of it what you put into it.
I would guess you could pick up 30-40hp over stock with everything I mentioned, could be more or less, just a ballpark estimate. Either way it would help the engine be more efficient which would give you better mpg and less trips to the pump.
1987 Turbo Coupe
1988 Thunderbird parts car/ possibly street/strip car
1990 F-250HD 460ci
2001 Pontiac Montana (wife's ride)

-PLEASE FORGIVE TYPOS, I USE SWYPE ON MY PHONE-
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Dan S Offline
Administrator
#6
+1 on RDOG above. Let it run and get warm. Most of them will tick (knock) like crazy if they sat for a while. It could also be injector related, since it was fine before you changed "O" rings. Take your time and don't throw money at it! :read:
Dan S
Custom 88 TC, Mandarin Copper Pearl Metallic
http://natomessageboard.com/ubbthreads.p...5#comments
1972 Ford F-100 SWB Styleside
2015 Lincoln MKC 2.3 EcoBoost AWD
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RDOG Offline
Posting Freak
#7
First off you said you just did HLA's. Did you do the HLA's at the same time as the injector O rings? If so, I will bet top dollar the HLA's are not completely worn in and filled. I wouldnt pull it out just yet. Let the car warm up, and drive it! See if the noise goes away. Worse case scenario it is a rod knock, and since the plan is to pull the motor anyway-no harm done.
1986 Turbo Coupe. Boport StageIII head, Boport 2.1, Performance Techniques 50 trim hybird, StageII.63, stinger 3" exhaust, Phenolic spacer, Boglog header,NPR FMIC intercooler setup, kirban fpr, bigrmotorsports fuel rail, diablo water meth kit, CAI, remote mount TFI, CHE rear adj control arms, MAC girdle, 8.8 rear disc, aluminum drive shaft, H&R lowerings springs Tbird Turbo Specific, y MAS!!
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Scott Mabe Offline
Member
#8
I want to touch on my previous post, I'm not saying jump straight to a engine rebuild. I have to agree with rdog and dan s, hla's should be the first thing you check. I've never dealt with them before but my understanding is they are the same as hydraulic lifters that im used to. That being said I have always soaked new lifters in oil for a day or two, working the lifters some when you first put them in oil and right before you put them in the engine. If primed properly it should be extremely difficult if not impossible to compress by hand. If it is confirmed that you have a bad bearing and you have to rebuild, the points I made before can help keep the engine stay together and be more efficient.
1987 Turbo Coupe
1988 Thunderbird parts car/ possibly street/strip car
1990 F-250HD 460ci
2001 Pontiac Montana (wife's ride)

-PLEASE FORGIVE TYPOS, I USE SWYPE ON MY PHONE-
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Ramos617 Offline
Member
#9
Yea I am definitely not trying to throw money and parts at it since I was tought to diagnose the exact problem

Originally I changed only the orings and pintle caps. I put everything together and the noise was there.
Then I changed the timing belt while I was checking that the engine timing was in check. I swore it was a top end noise and everything was in perfect condition under the valve cover so I thought it could either be the Hlas or springs.

After the Hlas were swapped it sounded the exact same as before with the knock, it was then that my uncle was able to make it to my house and helped me time it perfect and took a look under the car.
After getting under there it's obvious that it is a bottom end knock.

I will definitely take my time to do it properly, I knew I would eventually rebuild my TC engine but I didn't know it would be so soon.

I also appreciate all the tips, Thanks guys.

I have no idea how the noise just came about but it did come up all of a sudden .
1987 T-Bird
Too much stuff to list
Running better than ever
Reply

Scott Mabe Offline
Member
#10
It is possible to have a bearing go bad right in the driveway. I was tuning a carburetor not too long ago and had a bearing go out on a 302. Very frustrating, but unfortunately it can and does happen from time to time.
1987 Turbo Coupe
1988 Thunderbird parts car/ possibly street/strip car
1990 F-250HD 460ci
2001 Pontiac Montana (wife's ride)

-PLEASE FORGIVE TYPOS, I USE SWYPE ON MY PHONE-
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