North American Turbocoupe Organization



NATO Gods, please help me!
RevRanger Offline
Junior Member
#1
I've got a few funny issues and I'm looking for some help.

1.) Car was running rich (seen on wideband sensor) , so I did a fuel pressure test and learned that my regulator was bad and I replaced it. However, it is still running rich. Here's what I know...I have an exhaust leak somewhere near the head and possibly at the wastegate and where the turbo meets the manifold. I also have a slight pinging (I assume from running rich). Pinging decreased greatly after new regulator.

2.) Second problem is that when I'm boosting the engine spools up great, but then as it continues to spool, the engine all of a sudden sounds like a big balloon with air squealing out of it (just like when you flatten a balloon opening as it deflates)

3.) When I shift, the wastegate flaps about six times in one second getting softer as it taps - TAP TAp TapTap tap tap


Good luck!

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Not B Anymore Offline
Administrator
#2
What is your setup? I'm assuming it's not stock if you have a Wideband hooked up.

Do you have a front mount IC? That flapping sound can occur when front mount is used with no pressure relief (BOV/BPV).

Also - the whistling noise is probably a leak in one of the hoses or connections between the turbo and throttle body. Make sure all of your clamps are tight and hoses are in good shape.
Brian Leavitt
'86 TC 5-Speed -- MS2x w/COP | 83 lb. injectors | T3/T4 50 Trim Stage 3 .63AR | Full 3" Exhaust - No Cat | Motorsport FMIC | Ranger Roller | Ported E6 | Walbro 255HP | Kirban | 20psi | 120-amp 3G | 8.8" 3.55 rear | '03 Cobra Wheels
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Jeff K Offline
Administrator
#3
Stock ECU or standalone? Are you using the stock O2 sensor for input to the PCM and just using the WBO2 to monitor A/F ratio, or are you using the WBO2 NBO2 emulator output for input to the PCM?

Exhaust leaks between the O2 sensor that is used for an input to the PCM and the engine will mess up A/F ratios a lot.

I agree with Brian on a boost leak somewhere, likely a hose or a connection. Boost leak releases metered air to the environment and will therefore cause a rich condition.
Jeff Korn

88 Turbo Coupe: Intake and exhaust mods, T3 turbo at 24 psi, forced air IC, water injection, BPV, Ranger cam, subframes, etc., etc.
86 Tbird 5.0 (original owner): intake, exhaust, valvetrain mods, 100 HP N2O, ignition, gears, suspension, etc., etc.
05 Taurus SEL Duratec daily driver
04 Taurus Duratec (wifes car)
02 Pontiac Grand Prix GT
95 Taurus GL Vulcan winter beater
67 Honda 450 Super Sport - completely customized
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RevRanger Offline
Junior Member
#4
Great questions! Thanks for the quick responses.

Set-up: I'm using a stock pcm, though I have a front mount intercooler with 3 inch piping. I upgraded to 3 inch exhaust from the turbo back. I have a Stinger elbow from the wastegate into 3 inch custom down pipe. Everything else is bone stock, with the exception of the fuel pump.

Stinger has a bung for an o2 sensor on their elbow. This is where I mounted my WBO2 to monitor a/f ratio. This sensor is not running to the pcm. (Could this be too close for the a/f gauge to read accurately?) A 2nd O2 bung is after the cat. This is the O2 sensor for the pcm...maybe if the cat is doing its job, this sensor might be giving the pcm a leaner reading that results in running rich?

How many 02 sensors should be running to the pcm?

Hope that helps. I'm out of a fun daily driver until I get this sorted.
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Dan S Offline
Administrator
#5
The Wideband O2 sensor is too close to the turbo and the Narrowband sensor is too far away. Switch them around! In reality, the wideband should be before the cat, not after. Wideband O2 doesn't like heat (really hot), so near the turbo is not good and after the cat (a heat producer) is not good.
Dan S
Custom 88 TC, Mandarin Copper Pearl Metallic
http://natomessageboard.com/ubbthreads.p...5#comments
1972 Ford F-100 SWB Styleside
2015 Lincoln MKC 2.3 EcoBoost AWD
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Not B Anymore Offline
Administrator
#6
:withstupid:
Brian Leavitt
'86 TC 5-Speed -- MS2x w/COP | 83 lb. injectors | T3/T4 50 Trim Stage 3 .63AR | Full 3" Exhaust - No Cat | Motorsport FMIC | Ranger Roller | Ported E6 | Walbro 255HP | Kirban | 20psi | 120-amp 3G | 8.8" 3.55 rear | '03 Cobra Wheels
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Dan S Offline
Administrator
#7
B Wrote::withstupid:
:nutkick:
Dan S
Custom 88 TC, Mandarin Copper Pearl Metallic
http://natomessageboard.com/ubbthreads.p...5#comments
1972 Ford F-100 SWB Styleside
2015 Lincoln MKC 2.3 EcoBoost AWD
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BJL Offline
Moderator
#8
the the 02 after the cat will change values of after a few seconds of the engine running. it will switch slower then to a point of being a steady number. this is not a good reading for the pcm. both 02 should be in front of the car, ALWAYS. as Dan said. wideband after the narrow band.

FYI: the 02 sensor after a cat is used to confirm to a OBD-II complaint vehicle (1996+) that the cat converter is working properly. its value is a slower switching of a pre cat 02, and once the cat is very hot will be a steady .6-.7 volts (narrow band 02 sensor)
that is why on your TC this is not needed. all o2's going to PCM need to be before the cat and as close to the turbo as possible.
a leak in the exhaust will also let out side air sucked into the exhaust through the venturi effect. this will also give false readings..
Brian J Larkin
88TC 320k miles
T3, FMIC ,3in stinger exhaust, gillis,
255 walbro, afpr, 5spd swap,spec clutch, sn95 5 lug,.
89 Cougar XR7 3.8SC Auto
95 Ranger Splash 3.0 auto
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TurboE Offline
Posting Freak
#9
First thing I thought was what Dan S said. Looks like everyone else does also. The sotck location for the EEC O2 sensor is at the turbo elbow. So it's meant to be measured there and could be causing fuel calculation issue. The EEC calculates fuel injection pulse width based on a number of things and calculates the pulse width on the fly. Have a out of actual range issue could?? mess with this. It specifically states for any wideband O2 sensor I've used it should be a distance away from a turbo, might be 3 feet or so if I remember correctly???

As mentioned above by others, and Brian if you know you have an exhaust leak prior to the WB02 sensor you really shouldn't rely on that data to be accurate. A leak can cause false readings. I would keep the WB readings out of your considerations until you can know its accurate.

Pinging is an issue, other than swaping the O2 sensors things I would check, what fuel are you using, try newer fuel if old, try additives if you feel it's needed to see if it changes things. Check your fuel pressure. Change your fuel filter for cheap insurance that it's not causing an issue at full load, open throttle. In my opinion you shouldn't have pinging if you have correct fuel delivery, air delivery, and correct cam and ignition timing. Since your car is fairly stock except the front mount? I assume your running 93, not 92 and have the fuel selection on premium and it's functioning correctly. (this changes the timing map). I would check the basics and see what others have to say. What boost pressure are you noticing pinging, ok until after 15psi, all the time under load, etc... more details will help the guys that know. Those are just some basics.
-88 TC Black
5spd, Precision SC50 T3/T4, QH/SD Tune, Gillis, AFPR, 255FP, WB O2, K&N, Ported E6, 3" DP, ATR 2.5" Duals, 3:73 Rear, Konis, Eibachs, 18" Voxx Wheels, X Drilled Rotors.
-06 G35 Coupe Diamond Graphite
-97 Pathfinder
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Dan S Offline
Administrator
#10
Let's go back and cover all the bases. Stock O2 sensor needs to be mounted in the elbow (stock location). You are running a Stinger 3" down pipe, so the stock O2 sensor can be mounted in the bung provided in that pipe.

A Wideband O2 sensor needs to be at least 18" away from the turbine outlet (wideband O2 sensors do not like heat).

If you are running a stock ECU, only the narrowband (stock) O2 sensor will work. If you are running an aftermarket stand alone ECU, then the Wideband O2 is needed.

***NEVER wire both O2 sensors together, it will confuse the ECU, giving erroneous readings***

***The stock Ford EEC-IV will only read narrowband O2***


Are you just using the Wideband O2 for a gauge?

Dan S
Custom 88 TC, Mandarin Copper Pearl Metallic
http://natomessageboard.com/ubbthreads.p...5#comments
1972 Ford F-100 SWB Styleside
2015 Lincoln MKC 2.3 EcoBoost AWD
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