North American Turbocoupe Organization



knocking in nuetral?
Noname
Guest
#1
ok, now I've beeen working on my 86 TC for a couple days. The problem with was that it idled up and down a couple hundred RPM and it was missing while cruising, and the turbo to manifold gasket was blown. I pulled it all apart, removed A/C, removed the air/water IC, removed the manifold and turbo, then I replaced the turbo/manifold gasket, and put the turbo/manifold back on. While the turbo was off I rotated the compressor housing to fit my 88 TC IC on. WHile messing with this I found 2 problems, the IAC male connector was broken and the 2 wires actually come out of the connector, also the VAM plastic cover was so loose that I could grab it and pull it off. Also, since the guy before dumped 110 octane in it I went ahead a put on a new O2 sensor and new NGK plugs (Tr5 2238) gapped at .032. There was a BOSCH BPV hooked up with the air/water IC so when I put on the stock IC, I fabricated a way to get it on, I used a couple brass fittings screwed into the IC and ran a hose off of that to the BPV, and from the BPV to a piece of 3" pipe which has a port to hook up the BPV hose and a port to hook up the valve cover breather hose (since this has a T3/T4 hybrid with a 3" inlet, it has no compressor elbow, so it is ran like this....compressor inlet, stock flex hose, 3" metal pipe (with the BPV port and breather port), 3" hose, VAM, cone filter).
So as it sits now, NOTHING has been TOUCHED or CHANGED since when it came into the garage, except this: removed A/C (the connector/switch that screws into the accumulator is just hanging, the connector to the compressor is just hanging), removed the air/water IC setup (the 2 wires for the waterpump are cut and are hanging there), the O2 sensor is replaced, the spark plugs are replaced (.032 gap), the 88 TC IC is on, the BPV is hooked up from the IC to the intake pipe, and the VAM has been swapped for one that doesnt have a cover that can just come off. Also I removed the tape around the IAC connector and the 2 wires came out of the connector completely and I don't know which wire went on which side of the connector, so that may be the biggest problem. ther than that I touched nothing at all. When I go to start it up, its has trouble even getting started at all, I have to give it throttle to keep it running, when I let off throttle, it just wants to die, the car didnt want to stay idling at all while it was cold. It still needed to open up the thermostat so I could fill the radiator up because all of the coolant was draining during the repairs. After it warmed up, it kept itself at idle, going up and down about 200 RPM from 1000 RPM, but when you rev it up it just hesistates and wants to die when the RPM fall back down. The worst thing is when I stand over the engine and rev it up from the TB, as soon as I rev it I hear a knock coming from the engine which really pissed me off....what the hell could cause it to knock....? Another thing I noticed with this was that is I disconnect the hose going from the IC to BPV, I can feel the BPV sucking air in....but I thought the BPV was supposed to stay CLOSED during idle...why was it open? WOuldn't this cause like a HUGE vac leak or something? I mean I simply disconnected the vac line going to the BPV and it closed it off, but it still ran like shit and knocked when you rev it... I checked all the wires and plugs, and seem to be all sparking, would plug gap have anything to do with this? Maybe I gapped one wrong or something....? Anyone have any ideas? The car came into the garage running decent, now it runs shitty. It knocks when you rev, and idles funny almost wanting to die. The wierd thing with the IAC connector is that I swapped the wires around and it doesnt change anything... Also if I hold the car at a certain RPM, it sounds normal, but as soon as you let it idle on its own it acts funny....

Oh yea and another thing, there is a ground wire that goes the stock compressor elbow on a normal TC, with this one the guy had the ground attached to one of the bolts on the back of the compressor housing, if this was grounded bad, would that cause any problems?

[This message has been edited by dm22 (edited 02-17-2003).]
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Dan E Offline
Posting Freak
#2
Whew...I'm tired from just reading all of that. Hopefully I got it all ???

I think it doesn't want to stay running right to begin with is because you don't have the base idle speed correctly with a bad connection to the IAC. If you can, find a TC in a JY and clip off the IAC connector and install that on yours rather than trying to fix you wire in the connector. The set the base idle with the IAC unplugged to around 750rpm then plug the IAC back in.

Also check your TPS voltage at closed throttle.

I think the reason that it wants to die after it's warmed up if you rev it up maybe due to a vac leak. Perhaps related to your BPV plumbing ???

As far as the BPV being closed at idle...nope...just the opposite. Remember that the BPV opens when it sees vac and closes when it sees boost. At idle you are pulling the maximum amount of vac. I installed a one-way check valve underneath my BPV for this very reason (see drawing).

Another possible cause is a faulty ECT sensor. Jeff K. can instruct you on how to test it I think.

As far as the ground wire to the turbo goes...????? I always forget what that's for but I think it's for the ICRM (Fan and Fuel Pump relay module). Couldn't tell you what a bad ground there would do ?



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Dan Eaves
88TC 5spd, Crower 5.5" Sportsman Rods, Short Wiseco Pistons bored .030" Over, Ported Head with Polished Combustion Chambers, Gutted & Polished Upper, Ported & Polished Lower, Polished T/B, Ported E6, SVO T3 .63AR Turbo, Bosch Bypass Valve, 3" DP w/No Cat, 2 1/2" DynoMax single cat back w/DynoMax Super Turbo Muffler, RR Cam, K&N in Fenderwell, Gillis Boost Valve, Centerforce I Clutch, Removed A/C, Polished Wheels, Polished Valve Cover, Polished Crank and W/P Pulleys, Walbro 255LPH HP Pump, Kirban Adj FPR, and the DAMN Heater Core is new too !

http://www.geocities.com/wot_turbo/WOT.html

NATO MEMBER (Vice Chairman...if it's a vice...I deal with it)
Dan Eaves
88TC 5spd Vermillion Red, Polished...everything...
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Noname
Guest
#3
Im stil wondering about the knock, the other stuff is minor compared to this. Would a vac leak cause a knock or something with the ignition cause a knock?
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Kev Offline
Posting Freak
#4
Did you put the spark plug wires back on wrong? It's okay if you did and don't want to tell us. hehe
Kev
1988 TC 5spd
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Noname
Guest
#5
See I thought maybe, but i mean the way the guy had the plug wires in their little dividers they were in perfect order from shortest to longest so I mean, if they are in the wrong order, Im a dumbass. But i mean if I hold the RPMs up at like 2-3k it runs and sounds fine, it wouldnt do that if 2 plug wires were wrong... So Im pretty sure that isnt it, but ya know it could always be a possibility...
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bigred Offline
Member
#6
Could be lifters knocking have you checked oil pressure with a gage other than stock
1988 TC T-5 swap,New Head,Wiseco .030 pistons ,5.5 Crower rods ,balanced ,24x12x3 intercooler,T-3 .60
Ranger Roller Cam,New brown tops.
New 3"cat and 3"single SS exhaust
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Noname
Guest
#7
I haven't done any of that yet because I mean It came into the garage running a lot better and it wasn't knocking at all. And I haven't changed anything on the engine or messed with timing or anything like that..
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Jeff K Offline
Administrator
#8
As far as the BPV being open at idle, it is supposed to be that way. As long as it returns air between the VAM and turbo, all the air is metered anyway. I have heard from several sources that having the BPV open at idle and at cruise (also high vac situation) actually makes the intake air cooler.

IAB: The wires do have to be connected ot the correct terminals. I dont remember which is which off the top of my head, though. Are you sure the IAB is even working? Turn up the base isle with the screw on the throttle linkage as a test to get it to idle.

Are you sure you dont have a vac hose disconnected or the IC to TB or IC to turbo hoses loose, or are they damamged / leaking?

ECT: Measure its resistance. With coolant at 50 to 60 deg F, resistance should be about 50,000 to 60,000 ohms, and at 190 deg F coolant temp, resistance should be in the loow thousands of ohms range, like 2000 ohms or so.

Have you run the KOEO and KOER tests?

If the groun wire at the turbo isnt connected, it will cause all kinds of problems!! EEC wont give codes, motor will run crappy, etc, etc.

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Jeff Korn

88 Turbo Coupe: Intake and exhaust mods, T3 turbo at 20 psi, forced air intercooler, water injection, bypass valve, Ranger roller cam, subframes, etc., etc.. // 86 Tbird 5.0 (original owner): intake, exhaust, valvetrain mods, 100 HP nitrous, ignition, gears, suspension, etc., etc.... // 91 Escort: Bone stock winter car // 00 Windstar (wifes vehicle)
Jeff Korn

88 Turbo Coupe: Intake and exhaust mods, T3 turbo at 24 psi, forced air IC, water injection, BPV, Ranger cam, subframes, etc., etc.
86 Tbird 5.0 (original owner): intake, exhaust, valvetrain mods, 100 HP N2O, ignition, gears, suspension, etc., etc.
05 Taurus SEL Duratec daily driver
04 Taurus Duratec (wifes car)
02 Pontiac Grand Prix GT
95 Taurus GL Vulcan winter beater
67 Honda 450 Super Sport - completely customized
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