North American Turbocoupe Organization



Is the gap to small
Paulie Offline
Banned
#21
E85 requires 42% more fuel to reach stoich

Fuel ........................ AFRst ........ FARst ....... Equivalence Ratio ... Lambda
Gas stoich ................ 14.7 .......... 0.068 ................ 1 ................... 1
Gas max power rich .... 12.5 .......... 0.08 ................. 1.176 .............. 0.8503
Gas max power lean .... 13.23 ........ 0.0755 .............. 1.111 ............. 0.900
E85 stoich .................. 9.765 ....... 0.10235 ............ 1 ................... 1
E85 max power rich ...... 6.975 ....... 0.1434 .............. 1.40 ............... 0.7143
E85 max power lean ..... 8.4687 ...... 0.118 ............... 1.153 .............. 0.8673
E100 stoich ................ 9.0078 ...... 0.111 ............... 1 .................... 1
E100 max power rich .... 6.429 ........ 0.155 .............. 1.4 .................. 0.714
E100 max power lean .... 7.8 .... ...... 0.128 .............. 1.15 ................ 0.870
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Paulie Offline
Banned
#22
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boosted85 Offline
Senior Member
#23
Well under boost it reads about 11.2-11.6 is that good a guy I know said to run about 12.2 so it stops fowling out the plugs his turbo mx3 ran that way on 26 psi for 3 yrs then he ran 28-30 and blew a rod like 3 months later so... I'm lost on if its to rich or lean
Complete custom downpipe to tail pipe 3in exhaust, ranger cam, cran double valve springs, stock dsm bov switchin out for a good aftermarket, cone filter, fmi 2.5in piping, walbro 342hp, aeromotive fpr, fuel pressure 45 base, 17in cobra R's, steel braided oil feed line, 96lb injectors, megasquirt 1 v2.2, msd blaster 2 coil 86 t3 48, innovative lc1 wideband,
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Paulie Offline
Banned
#24
Sounds like you are to lean. I would try 10.0 and see what that does. You do not want to lean it out That is not a good thing.
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Paulie Offline
Banned
#25
You may have already read that E85 has a different stoichometric air fuel ratio than gasoline's 14.7. The stoich AFR for E85 (at 85% Ethanol) is 9.76. The stoich value represents an ideal perfect burn of the fuel usually used at part throttle conditions. Full throttle conditions require a richer mixture than stoich to prevent the dreaded detonation, or pinging.

However most AFR gauges you can purchase to display a numerical value of the AFR, are showing you values for gasoline. This is where it can get tricky, and it's important to understand how this ratio works on both gasoline and ethanol-based fuel.

All AFR's regardless of fuel type work off of a common number called Lambda. A value of 1.0 in Lambda represents the stoich for any fuel. Gasoline is Lambda 1.0 at stoich. E85 is Lambda 1.0 at stoich.

If you already have a standard gasoline AFR meter hooked to a wideband O2 sensor, you can still use the displayed gasoline AFRs in determining your engine's true AFR. For example, if your gasoline meter is showing 14.7, then we know this is Lamda of 1.0. The equivelent on the E85 side is around 9.7. Therefore you can conclude that the 14.7 you see on the gauge is a true AFR of 9.7. This allows you to effectively use existing gasoline AFR components or software to tune an E85 Mustang without buying special equipment. Simply use the same target AFRs on your gasoline gauge that you normally targeted for gasolline.
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boosted85 Offline
Senior Member
#26
Ok well whenever it goes into the 10s it bucks or misses that's y its in the 11s so is high 11 a good ratio for boost. And Wat should timing be at right now I have it at 28 at 24psi
Complete custom downpipe to tail pipe 3in exhaust, ranger cam, cran double valve springs, stock dsm bov switchin out for a good aftermarket, cone filter, fmi 2.5in piping, walbro 342hp, aeromotive fpr, fuel pressure 45 base, 17in cobra R's, steel braided oil feed line, 96lb injectors, megasquirt 1 v2.2, msd blaster 2 coil 86 t3 48, innovative lc1 wideband,
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boosted85 Offline
Senior Member
#27
Ok well whenever it goes into the 10s it bucks or misses that's y its in the 11s so is high 11 a good ratio for boost. And Wat should timing be at right now I have it at 28 at 24psi
Complete custom downpipe to tail pipe 3in exhaust, ranger cam, cran double valve springs, stock dsm bov switchin out for a good aftermarket, cone filter, fmi 2.5in piping, walbro 342hp, aeromotive fpr, fuel pressure 45 base, 17in cobra R's, steel braided oil feed line, 96lb injectors, megasquirt 1 v2.2, msd blaster 2 coil 86 t3 48, innovative lc1 wideband,
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Paulie Offline
Banned
#28
Ignition Timing

One of the great things about E85 is not only its higher octane rating, but also its ability to suppress detonation. Because of this, the timing map can be made to be more aggressive than when tuning with gasoline. Since everyone always wants numbers, I have always been safe in advancing the map 2 degrees everywhere to start with. From there I have been able to go as much as 6-7 degrees at times, and at other times I haven’t been able to increase it at all after the initial 2 degree increase. Really it just depends on the set-up. ALSO, if playing with the timing of the vehicle, it is strongly encouraged that this be done on a dyno. Relying on just a knock sensor and a pair of det cans at times is not enough. For forced induction motors, E85 gives you the ability to run more boost without running into cylinder pressures that would normally cause the engine to knock. E85 seems to mainly be used on boosted applications for this purpose, but I have tuned several cars that were N/A, but running E-85, because of their 14:1 static compression ratio. If the motor is forced induced, many tuners and owners spend much of there time tuning the area of the map under boosted load. Remember though, tuning in the area outside of boost is just as important, and not for just drivability either. Many gains can be found in this area for performance since a proper timing curve will aid in turbo spool and boost torque output significantly.

Fuel Map

If starting from scratch, do as you would regularly by over doing the fuel and working backward. If starting with a fuel map that has already been mapped out for pump gas, calculate a 30% increase and apply it to the entire map. This will give you a good idea of wear to start. From here, tune the car just as you normally would. Most of the time a 30% increase will add more fuel than needed and the car will be overly rich. This is perfect as a safe starting point that you can then pull fuel from to tune the car safely.

I found this it may help Thanks
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boosted85 Offline
Senior Member
#29
Ok so 28 degrees is normal for e85 id like some one to look at one of my logs and ve and spark tables
Complete custom downpipe to tail pipe 3in exhaust, ranger cam, cran double valve springs, stock dsm bov switchin out for a good aftermarket, cone filter, fmi 2.5in piping, walbro 342hp, aeromotive fpr, fuel pressure 45 base, 17in cobra R's, steel braided oil feed line, 96lb injectors, megasquirt 1 v2.2, msd blaster 2 coil 86 t3 48, innovative lc1 wideband,
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