94VERTiGO
Joined:
Jul 2019
Cary, NC
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88 TC no mods. Currently experiencing a stutter while accelerating. Every now and then while cruising ~35mph, constant acceleration, it will run smooth. I can mash the pedal and it will accelerate, The turbo boost gauge will peg all the way at 15 psi and hold steady while accelerating. It will accelerate and run highway speeds, but stumbles and stutters while doing so.
When did this start? I had a bad oil leak at the stainless line from the oil sending unit.
Bought the stinger stainless braided line and the "T" fitting and replaced my old line and the Ford fitting that goes into the head.
To do this repair I removed the upper intake manifold, the fuel injection rail and injectors (pulled out as a unit.)
I put it back together and it stuttered and stumbled on the test drive. Even while backing out of the garage at 1 mph.
Thought it was ignition related so I replaced distributor cap, rotor, plugs and plug wires. (Motorcraft parts).
Thought maybe I had an intake leak or did not plug in a sensor. Pulled it apart to check sensors/plugs, torque on manifold bolts, all seemed ok, put back together, same stutter under accelreration.
Thought it was the distributor TFI or PIP, pulled distributor and replaced TFI, did not replace PIP because I destroyed distributor trying to press on the gear. Found a replacement distributor and put a new TFI in it.
Still stuttered and stumbled.
Pulled codes KOEO and KOER.
TPS and MAP sensor.
Checked TPS and had unstable readings. Bought a new TPS from Stinger.
Having problems installing it. With throttle closed, it reads 4.xx V, With throttle wide open it reads < 1 V. THIS IS BACKWARDS, I KNOW, but WHAT IS HAPPENING?
I put the old TPS in and same thing. I don't understand.
Please help before I burn this darn thing down. (not really but right now that would be satisfying).
Pat
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94VERTiGO
Joined:
Jul 2019
Cary, NC
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Follow up on the TPS reading opposite of what it should. I have the Idle Air Bypass off of the car and it is unplugged, to make room to work on the TPS, would that cause the TPS to read almost 5V closed and <1 V at WOT?
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BradM
Joined:
Dec 2020
Barrington, Illinois
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(01-26-2024, 12:48 AM)94VERTiGO Wrote: Follow up on the TPS reading opposite of what it should. I have the Idle Air Bypass off of the car and it is unplugged, to make room to work on the TPS, would that cause the TPS to read almost 5V closed and <1 V at WOT?
For TPS voltage measurements, are you referencing engine ground or referencing the ground on the TPS connector? Measure using the TPS ground as I believe it is a closed power circuit with it's own ground path.
1965 Mercury Comet Caliente; 1968 Mercury Monterey; 1969 F100 Ranger; 1982 Mustang; 1987 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe; 2017 Police Interceptor
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94VERTiGO
Joined:
Jul 2019
Cary, NC
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BradM, thank you for the response and making me think about what I was doing. I was measuring voltage at the orange and the green wire last night. Not sure why because I knew to use the Green and Black, I just was not paying attention due to being frustrated and not taking the time to do it right.
The new TPS went right in and voltage was 0.92 closed and 4.96 WOT.
So, I started it up after the install and the car still stutters and stumbles.
Tomorrow I check the Fuel pressure and see if that may be the problem.
Will report back.
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BradM
Joined:
Dec 2020
Barrington, Illinois
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I see you checked for intake leaks but I'd check with smoke. I use a smoke machine but there are cheaper versions that might work. See eBay item 364533505259. Also, is the EGR system still connected?
1965 Mercury Comet Caliente; 1968 Mercury Monterey; 1969 F100 Ranger; 1982 Mustang; 1987 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe; 2017 Police Interceptor
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94VERTiGO
Joined:
Jul 2019
Cary, NC
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I did a fuel pressure check today (several times) have 0 psi on the gauge. I went to Autozone and "borrowed" a fuel pressure test kit. The kit is brand new, had a Ford adapter that screwed right onto the fuel rail.
I got 0 psi with the key in the "ON" position and with engine running AND engine running. I can drive the car down the street for miles, although it stutters the whole time.
Is this even possible for the car to run with 0 psi on the fuel rail?
Will it even build boost and accelerate with 0 psi fuel pressure.
I am totally flustered at this point. I expected to see some fuel pressure, I can hear the fuel pump run when the key is turned to the "ON" position, but would there be 0 psi?
Any ideas on what is going on here?
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94VERTiGO
Joined:
Jul 2019
Cary, NC
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Does anyone know of a a reliable shop in the Raleigh NC area that would be able to diagnose what is going on here?
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BradM
Joined:
Dec 2020
Barrington, Illinois
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(01-27-2024, 11:07 PM)94VERTiGO Wrote: I did a fuel pressure check today (several times) have 0 psi on the gauge. I went to Autozone and "borrowed" a fuel pressure test kit. The kit is brand new, had a Ford adapter that screwed right onto the fuel rail.
I got 0 psi with the key in the "ON" position and with engine running AND engine running. I can drive the car down the street for miles, although it stutters the whole time.
Is this even possible for the car to run with 0 psi on the fuel rail?
Will it even build boost and accelerate with 0 psi fuel pressure.
I am totally flustered at this point. I expected to see some fuel pressure, I can hear the fuel pump run when the key is turned to the "ON" position, but would there be 0 psi?
Any ideas on what is going on here?
It won't run on 0psi. The schrader valve is not working or the connector is not seating enough to engage the valve. You can press the valve in with a screwdriver and fuel will come out with KOEO. You can also remove it with a schrader valve tool (just like a bicycle tire).
1965 Mercury Comet Caliente; 1968 Mercury Monterey; 1969 F100 Ranger; 1982 Mustang; 1987 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe; 2017 Police Interceptor
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94VERTiGO
Joined:
Jul 2019
Cary, NC
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I thought that there must have been a problem with the gauge or the way I was using it. So this morning, I went out to confirm the 0 psi on the pressure gauge. First I turned the key to the on position, pushed the schrader valve and fuel came out with very little pressure behind it. I started the car and repeated pushing on the Schrader valve. Again fuel came out, but very little pressure behind it. It sprayed maybe 3 or 4 inches up the screwdriver.
I put the adapter for the pressure gauge on the valve, turned key "on" and pushed the adapter's valve to ensure fuel would come out. Fuel came out but just a little like before. I then put the gauge on the adapter, turned key "on" and 0 psi. Started the engine with fuel gauge attached and still 0 psi.
Went to my '89 Jeep Cherokee, put the gauge on the fuel rail, turned key on, and gauge moved to about 2 psi. Started Jeep and fuel pressure went to ~32psi. Depressed gas pedal and psi jumped to about 40.
So, the gauge works on the jeep.
Went back to the Turbocoupe repeated test and still got 0 psi. Went to the trunk, could hear fuel pump running, knocked on the fuel pump shut off switch, fuel pump died and car stalled a few seconds later.
Reset the shut off switch, started back up, and still 0 psi. \
The fuel gauge has a pressure relief button on a vent line that you depress after the test to relieve pressure and it sprays fuel out of the line on the test gauge. While I was testing the Turbocoupe, I depressed that button and there was no fuel in the line although I could see gas vapor (like heat waves) coming out of the vent line.
I will triple check with the fuel gauge this afternoon, but in the meantime. ]
If I have to get a new fuel pump should I shop the 235LPH walpro or should I just get OEM spec. I don't anticipate doing any mods for HP, but would the 235 LPH cause any issues or is as good or better than OEM?
Thanks
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anasazi4st
Joined:
Feb 2015
Phoenix, AZ
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(01-28-2024, 07:15 PM)94VERTiGO Wrote: I thought that there must have been a problem with the gauge or the way I was using it. So this morning, I went out to confirm the 0 psi on the pressure gauge. First I turned the key to the on position, pushed the schrader valve and fuel came out with very little pressure behind it. I started the car and repeated pushing on the Schrader valve. Again fuel came out, but very little pressure behind it. It sprayed maybe 3 or 4 inches up the screwdriver.
I put the adapter for the pressure gauge on the valve, turned key "on" and pushed the adapter's valve to ensure fuel would come out. Fuel came out but just a little like before. I then put the gauge on the adapter, turned key "on" and 0 psi. Started the engine with fuel gauge attached and still 0 psi.
Went to my '89 Jeep Cherokee, put the gauge on the fuel rail, turned key on, and gauge moved to about 2 psi. Started Jeep and fuel pressure went to ~32psi. Depressed gas pedal and psi jumped to about 40.
So, the gauge works on the jeep.
Went back to the Turbocoupe repeated test and still got 0 psi. Went to the trunk, could hear fuel pump running, knocked on the fuel pump shut off switch, fuel pump died and car stalled a few seconds later.
Reset the shut off switch, started back up, and still 0 psi. \
The fuel gauge has a pressure relief button on a vent line that you depress after the test to relieve pressure and it sprays fuel out of the line on the test gauge. While I was testing the Turbocoupe, I depressed that button and there was no fuel in the line although I could see gas vapor (like heat waves) coming out of the vent line.
I will triple check with the fuel gauge this afternoon, but in the meantime. ]
If I have to get a new fuel pump should I shop the 235LPH walpro or should I just get OEM spec. I don't anticipate doing any mods for HP, but would the 235 LPH cause any issues or is as good or better than OEM?
Thanks
This is most curious. You can't start a car--or if you do somehow get it started, can't run it very long--with 0 psi fuel pressure. So there is something else going on here. I know that sounds obvious, but oftentimes stating the obvious is the first step in problem solving.
I would pull off the fuel rail assembly and install another one, which should eliminate that as the source of trouble. If you have the same problem with the second fuel rail then it's time to suspect another part, as it's extremely unlikely the second one is defective. I would not "throw parts" at it. A fuel pump is not an easy installation, and I would be certain that's the problem first.
Why the fuel rail? Because that's where the Schrader valve is that you connect the gauge to, and nearly the last stop of the fuel's journey. You can't really remove any of its parts (fuel regulator, etc.) unless you first remove the fuel rail, so try a replacement.
Another proud dues-paying member.
1987 Turbo Coupe w/T5OD, 8.8 axle, grey smoke; most options. Got it in 1991 with 41K miles: 3 turbos, 2 heater cores, 3 T5OD full rebuilds, 6 clutches, 1 head gasket, 2 Teves II ABS units, etc. later....
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