Cracker137
Joined:
Oct 2009
Carleton, MI
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04-11-2020, 01:52 AM
Hello Board!
It has been a pretty long time for me, in fact long enough for a marriage, 2 kids, and loss of a parent; it has been an interesting few years. Anyway I have finally been able to get back to my poor bird who when i last drove her had the exhaust fall off, and the brake line bust from the valve to the back.
Well while I was working on this, the other two lines burst in the back , yay rust, and now this last time when i clicked the key to check for brake leaks, the fuel line went (I was looking at them wondering how long they would hold). Now this leads me to three questions I am looking for some help on.
1. For the fuel lines what are the sizes of each for the fuel and return?
2. Should I worry about replacing with metal lines, or just go nylon the whole way?
3.For the brakes I have gotten to where it is still leaking no matter what I do from the brake proportioning valve, I did check the same line that leaks tight there, does not leak in another spot, I am pretty sure I messed up the valve and cant get it to seal. Anyone run into this or something similar? Is there any tips and tricks to changing this thing easier?
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Kuch
Joined:
Sep 2016
Manlius, NY USA
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Cracker, welcome back. I know what I would do if this was my Bird. I would run new steel or stainless steel fuel lines and replace all of the brake line including hoses if I was going to be driving on a regular basis. This is just a good piece of mind for myself. As for the leaking proportioning valve, I would replace it with either a used one or buy a new one if possible, if the threads got screwed up then it will not tighten enough to hold a seal anyways. The fuel line sizing, that I do not know, but someone on here should know that. Best of luck.
1988 Turbo Coupe, Black/Black, 5 Speed, Moonroof, T3/T4, ported E6, 255LPH, Kirban, Stinger Exhaust, MGW shifter, K&N, Gillis valve, BP1.5, PIMPx, Koni's
1964 Ford Galaxie 500XL, 390 6V, Big Solid cam, Headers,3.89's, 4 Speed, Vast and fast
1960 Ford Starliner, 292 Y Block, 312 4bbl intake, headers, 3 Speed, slow and low
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anasazi4st
Joined:
Feb 2015
Phoenix, AZ
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(04-11-2020, 01:52 AM)Cracker137 Wrote: Hello Board!
It has been a pretty long time for me, in fact long enough for a marriage, 2 kids, and loss of a parent; it has been an interesting few years. Anyway I have finally been able to get back to my poor bird who when i last drove her had the exhaust fall off, and the brake line bust from the valve to the back.
Well while I was working on this, the other two lines burst in the back , yay rust, and now this last time when i clicked the key to check for brake leaks, the fuel line went (I was looking at them wondering how long they would hold). Now this leads me to three questions I am looking for some help on.
1. For the fuel lines what are the sizes of each for the fuel and return?
2. Should I worry about replacing with metal lines, or just go nylon the whole way?
3.For the brakes I have gotten to where it is still leaking no matter what I do from the brake proportioning valve, I did check the same line that leaks tight there, does not leak in another spot, I am pretty sure I messed up the valve and cant get it to seal. Anyone run into this or something similar? Is there any tips and tricks to changing this thing easier?
Agree 100% with Kuch.
Also, let me throw this out there. The lines that run into the ABS valve body must be unique in that they are INVERTED flare—i.e. what are also known as BUBBLE flares. Now, two of these connect the ABS unit to the Proportioning Valve: the one closest to the firewall, or rear one, runs to the Right Front Brake Cylinder; and the center one, which runs to the Rear Brakes. The one closest to the front of the car runs directly to the Left Front Brake Cylinder. Regardless, they are all INVERTED (Bubble) flare.
AFAIK, this is the only place where you’ll find those. The rest are all DOUBLE flared.
NEVER use or substitute SINGLE flared tubing. You might as well brace for impact right now.
Another proud dues-paying member.
1987 Turbo Coupe w/T5OD, 8.8 axle, grey smoke; most options. Got it in 1991 with 41K miles: 3 turbos, 2 heater cores, 3 T5OD full rebuilds, 6 clutches, 1 head gasket, 2 Teves II ABS units, etc. later....
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Cracker137
Joined:
Oct 2009
Carleton, MI
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Thanks Kuch! I will go with the the metal lines. I actually have finished all but the two brake lines in the front.
anasazi4st you have to be kidding me, I didn't notice the difference and figured it was all the same (I looked at the end of the line goes to the back and saw a double flare, and been double flaring everything! That explains why it wont seal! Thank you!
I do have a replacement valve I was getting ready to swap in, but I think I will bubble flare first to see if I got lucky and just didn't put the right flare on.
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anasazi4st
Joined:
Feb 2015
Phoenix, AZ
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(04-21-2020, 10:45 AM)Cracker137 Wrote: Thanks Kuch! I will go with the the metal lines. I actually have finished all but the two brake lines in the front.
anasazi4st you have to be kidding me, I didn't notice the difference and figured it was all the same (I looked at the end of the line goes to the back and saw a double flare, and been double flaring everything! That explains why it wont seal! Thank you!
I do have a replacement valve I was getting ready to swap in, but I think I will bubble flare first to see if I got lucky and just didn't put the right flare on.
I have accidentally installed double flared lines instead of inverted ones on the ABS unit...and they seemed to seal okay. But, I think I was working with borrowed time. Once I discovered my mistake I quickly corrected it.
Another proud dues-paying member.
1987 Turbo Coupe w/T5OD, 8.8 axle, grey smoke; most options. Got it in 1991 with 41K miles: 3 turbos, 2 heater cores, 3 T5OD full rebuilds, 6 clutches, 1 head gasket, 2 Teves II ABS units, etc. later....
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88chickentc likes this post
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I know this is a response to an old string, but someone may find this helpful.
I'm working on repairing and replacing my fuel lines now. Per my measurements, stock supply line is 5/16" and return is 1/4". I picked up a new Brute Power fuel pump hanger. The supply output on that is 3/8" (but it trunks down to 5/16 at pump connection) and return inlet is 5/16".
I'm trying to figure out how to plumb it with either Earl's or Russell Performance hardline, hose, and connectors. I think I'll go with 3/8" on supply. I'd like to go with 5/16 on return, but there aren't a lot of 5/16" SAE/NPT to AN fittings available from these two manufacturers. So I might go 1/4".
One item I need to answer before pulling the trigger is the inlet and outlet size on my fuel pressure regulator. The engine is stashed a three-hour roundtrip away; haven't been able to get that measurement. I replaced the stock regulator with an adjustable model that was recommended on this forum about 20 years ago. It did mate easily to stock fuel lines, so likely has stock dimensions.
From what I've read, 5/16" supply is good up to 350 HP. That would be sufficient for my goals, but if the connectors can support 3/8", why not use it? I understand there is at least one 5/16" chokepoint, but I would think that the larger volume in the line would be beneficial. I don't think the pressure drop would be too significant. Thoughts?
1931 Deluxe Coupe
1949 Club Coupe
1951 F-1
1971 Torino GT Convertible
1988 Thunderbird Turbocoupe--SC-50 turbo, 3" Motion Dynamics exhaust
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Mikey97D
Joined:
Jan 2018
CONNECTICUT
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(12-06-2024, 03:35 PM)88chickentc Wrote: I know this is a response to an old string, but someone may find this helpful.
I'm working on repairing and replacing my fuel lines now. Per my measurements, stock supply line is 5/16" and return is 1/4". I picked up a new Brute Power fuel pump hanger. The supply output on that is 3/8" (but it trunks down to 5/16 at pump connection) and return inlet is 5/16".
I'm trying to figure out how to plumb it with either Earl's or Russell Performance hardline, hose, and connectors. I think I'll go with 3/8" on supply. I'd like to go with 5/16 on return, but there aren't a lot of 5/16" SAE/NPT to AN fittings available from these two manufacturers. So I might go 1/4".
One item I need to answer before pulling the trigger is the inlet and outlet size on my fuel pressure regulator. The engine is stashed a three-hour roundtrip away; haven't been able to get that measurement. I replaced the stock regulator with an adjustable model that was recommended on this forum about 20 years ago. It did mate easily to stock fuel lines, so likely has stock dimensions.
From what I've read, 5/16" supply is good up to 350 HP. That would be sufficient for my goals, but if the connectors can support 3/8", why not use it? I understand there is at least one 5/16" chokepoint, but I would think that the larger volume in the line would be beneficial. I don't think the pressure drop would be too significant. Thoughts? It's been a few decades since fluid dynamics, but IIRC P1V1=P2V2 is the quick and dirty .........I don't remember if v or V is velocity or volume.
So.....
use this website and make sure to change your units: Pressure Drop
1988 TC, 5 spd, Stinger 3" Exhaust, Schneider Roller Cam, -4° Cam Pulley, Cone Filter, Gilles Boost Control Valve set at 17 psi, Walbro 255 lph, CHE Rear Lower and Upper Control Arms, Braided Brake Lines, Hawk HPS 5.0 Front and HPS (F) Rear, CRES Inserts in front calipers, and '93 Cobra Wheels with General 235/50R17 Tires.
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