North American Turbocoupe Organization



electric power steering anyone?
andrewjs18 Offline
Administrator
#1
My '87 TC has a lot of work done to it - I bought the car this way. One of the mods that was done on the car was a gutted upper & lower intake and then the upper intake is rotated 90 degrees. When you rotate the upper intake, I believe the alternator is typically in the way unless you make a custom base plate to change where the upper intake will sit. The owner who did the work on my motor just removed all of the power steering, changed the rack over to a manual and relocated the alternator.

I live in a densely populated suburb with small streets and in a town where we have to park in our driveway or in our garage. Being that I already have 2 cars, plus the tbird, the tbird would have to go in the garage. The problem with manual steering is that it's a ROYAL PITA to maneuver the car around small streets and into a tiny garage that is barely large enough for the car.

When talking with my buddy Shawn, he mentioned looking into trying to use an electric power steering set up so I wouldn't need to clutter up my engine bay or change anything over to get power steering back, and to be honest, there's been wayyyy too much work done to my car to bother trying to convert it back to a traditional hydraulic power steering setup.

While researching the electric power steering stuff, I found that this is a VERY popular mod for people with old mustangs and cars that did not come from the factory with power steering. One of the most popular cars to pull the electric power steering set up from is a Saturn Vue. The downside to using a set up from a VUE is that it requires a 3rd steering controller to use the system, the steering control module is attached to the steering column and people have reported that steering wheel doesn't always return to center properly.

With some more research, I found that there's a mechanical engineer who used to work for Ford named Waid who worked in their steering department and was experimenting with using electric power steering set ups from other cars than the Vue. One of the set ups he found that works well is from the 04-09 Toyota Prius. All you need from a Prius is the electric power steering unit, the steering control module (mounted remotely) and then the connectors and some wiring you can splice into for the power, ground and ignition wires. This unit will work with just those 3 wires.

My car is at my buddy's house where he's installing the system from a Prius and should be done this week or next - hopefully. I'll be on vacation for a week at the end of this week and probably won't get to mess with the car until later April if it is done by then. I'll let everyone know how it is once I get the car back!

Here's some threads on this stuff;

Prius electric power steering:
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/mod-cu...ideos.html

Vue electric power steering:
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/mod-cu...r-eps.html

enjoy!
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anasazi4st Offline
Senior Member
#2
Genius work on your part. Also, IMHO, smart in realizing that converting BACK is more trouble than just moving forward.

I hate when previous owners think they are smarter than the OEM engineers and take on redesign by themselves. Much of the time it’s a train wreck, with a few rare exceptions. Nearly all the time they fail to properly think ahead and end up with a bigger problem in another area than what they are trying to fix.

I’m not just talking about cars here. Computers, lawn equipment, appliances, etc. I’ve seen some DIY projects that made me wonder if the mods were thought completely through, diagrammed and planned out at all.
Another proud dues-paying member.

1987 Turbo Coupe w/T5OD, 8.8 axle, grey smoke; most options. Got it in 1991 with 41K miles: 3 turbos, 2 heater cores, 1 T5OD full rebuild, 5 clutches, 1 head gasket, 2 Teves II ABS units, etc. later....
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Mikey97D Offline
Junior Member
#3
I have been following the Coyote swaps online. I enjoy reading the innovative ways people figure out how to make things work. A lot of them are using the Volvo pump for the brakes and power steering.

Good luck with your conversion and look forward to your update.


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Jeff K Offline
Administrator
#4
My thoughts..... All EPS units are powered by DC brush motors. DC brush motors are a wear item due to brush / commutator wear, especially in high current / high power applications. This is unlike AC induction motors, which are virtually wear free with the exception of shaft bearing wear, which can be reduced to near zero with proper design and lubrication. The motor controllers are also subject to failure if not properly designed with high quality parts (especially the power MOSFET drivers) and proper thermal management. EPS units will fail on a regular basis. Just ask the F150 guys with EPS..... reports of failures, even with low miles are common and dangerous, and repairs / replacements are NOT CHEAP.

Properly maintained hydraulic PS systems are nearly failure free with regular maintenance, such as changing the PS fluid every year or 2. Yes, hydraulic lines, seals, etc can and do leak, but they give you a warning of failure, and repairs are straight forward and relatively cheap. I will stick with my old hydraulic PS systems and live with replacing a PS pump every 300K miles, and a leaking seal or line every 10 years.

Jeff Korn

88 Turbo Coupe: Intake and exhaust mods, T3 turbo at 24 psi, forced air IC, water injection, BPV, Ranger cam, subframes, etc., etc.
86 Tbird 5.0 (original owner): intake, exhaust, valvetrain mods, 100 HP N2O, ignition, gears, suspension, etc., etc.
05 Taurus SEL Duratec daily driver
04 Taurus Duratec (wifes car)
02 Pontiac Grand Prix GT
95 Taurus GL Vulcan winter beater
67 Honda 450 Super Sport - completely customized
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andrewjs18 Offline
Administrator
#5
anasazi4st Wrote:Genius work on your part. Also, IMHO, smart in realizing that converting BACK is more trouble than just moving forward.

I hate when previous owners think they are smarter than the OEM engineers and take on redesign by themselves. Much of the time it’s a train wreck, with a few rare exceptions. Nearly all the time they fail to properly think ahead and end up with a bigger problem in another area than what they are trying to fix.

I’m not just talking about cars here. Computers, lawn equipment, appliances, etc. I’ve seen some DIY projects that made me wonder if the mods were thought completely through, diagrammed and planned out at all.

yeah, it should be nice when it's done!
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andrewjs18 Offline
Administrator
#6
Mikey97D Wrote:I have been following the Coyote swaps online. I enjoy reading the innovative ways people figure out how to make things work. A lot of them are using the Volvo pump for the brakes and power steering.

Good luck with your conversion and look forward to your update.

thank you. my car will be out Carlisle in June if you're going to make the trip down from Connecticut!
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andrewjs18 Offline
Administrator
#7
Jeff K Wrote:My thoughts..... All EPS units are powered by DC brush motors. DC brush motors are a wear item due to brush / commutator wear, especially in high current / high power applications. This is unlike AC induction motors, which are virtually wear free with the exception of shaft bearing wear, which can be reduced to near zero with proper design and lubrication. The motor controllers are also subject to failure if not properly designed with high quality parts (especially the power MOSFET drivers) and proper thermal management. EPS units will fail on a regular basis. Just ask the F150 guys with EPS..... reports of failures, even with low miles are common and dangerous, and repairs / replacements are NOT CHEAP.

Properly maintained hydraulic PS systems are nearly failure free with regular maintenance, such as changing the PS fluid every year or 2. Yes, hydraulic lines, seals, etc can and do leak, but they give you a warning of failure, and repairs are straight forward and relatively cheap. I will stick with my old hydraulic PS systems and live with replacing a PS pump every 300K miles, and a leaking seal or line every 10 years.

the thing with the EPS unit I'm using is that it works in fail safe mode by default so if something does indeed go bad on it, it'll just revert back to as if the car has manual steering. some of these systems, like the Saturn Vue, do not work in fail safe mode, thus requiring that 3rd controller to bypass the fail safe.

being that I'm not a mechanic, going back to stock power steering would be quite expensive and just not worth my time.
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John B Offline
Member
#8
[/quote]

the thing with the EPS unit I'm using is that it works in fail safe mode by default so if something does indeed go bad on it, it'll just revert back to as if the car has manual steering. some of these systems, like the Saturn Vue, do not work in fail safe mode, thus requiring that 3rd controller to bypass the fail safe.

being that I'm not a mechanic, going back to stock power steering would be quite expensive and just not worth my time.[/quote]

I personally think this is awesome. I converted my car to manual steering last year and although parking is a PITA, I love the feel of manual steering. I too will be at Carlisle this year; looking forward to seeing your car there!
88 Turbo Coupe: Front mount intercooler, remote mount TFI, MGW short throw shifter... murdered out
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andrewjs18 Offline
Administrator
#9
John B Wrote:
Quote:the thing with the EPS unit I'm using is that it works in fail safe mode by default so if something does indeed go bad on it, it'll just revert back to as if the car has manual steering. some of these systems, like the Saturn Vue, do not work in fail safe mode, thus requiring that 3rd controller to bypass the fail safe.

being that I'm not a mechanic, going back to stock power steering would be quite expensive and just not worth my time.

I personally think this is awesome. I converted my car to manual steering last year and although parking is a PITA, I love the feel of manual steering. I too will be at Carlisle this year; looking forward to seeing your car there!

A positive with the prius EPS is that because the system works in fail safe mode, it's a fixed level of assist that Toyota set when they designed their controller: not too much, not too little..just enough to get the job done, from everything I've read online. I should have my car back in 7-10 days, when I get back from vacation.

I'm looking forward to seeing you at Carlisle! This will be my first time out there...
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Mikey97D Offline
Junior Member
#10
andrewjs18 Wrote:my car will be out Carlisle in June if you're going to make the trip down from Connecticut!

I wish I was going to make it. Unfortunately that weekend got double booked with the Mrs.
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