North American Turbocoupe Organization



ECT
Rob H Offline
Senior Member
#41
(08-04-2020, 08:12 AM)anasazi4st Wrote:
(08-04-2020, 07:27 AM)Rob H Wrote: Ok thanks, I was pretty sure about that.
In regards to the rest I think I have it figured out, a little education on the use of the multimeter helped.
The reason the 2000 setting wouldn't work is because the reading was higher than that. Didn't realize that on the other settings you multiply the number by 1000.
This would mean that the reading of 2.19 I was getting in boiling water would be 2190 which is probably around 1000 Ohm off of the approx 1200 Ohm I should be seeing.
I'm cautiously optimistic that this is another problem solved!
I'll confirm once I get the part.

That’s a nice testing setup, Rob.

For your own benefit you should take the new part when it arrives and put it into the same setup you just had, and record the readings you get. Since it is a new part, it should provide the correct readings. I say, SHOULD. It could be the wrong part in the correct box (happens more than you might think), or just altogether the incorrect part. Probably not, but you can’t be too careful. That’s why you should test it as soon as you can, and why it’s a good idea to take the old part with you to the parts store to compare (if that’s where you’re getting it).

If you get the same readings as the other one, that could mean...? (Part is actually okay, and there is something else wrong...or, it’s the wrong part).

Recall the philosophical premise known as “Occam’s Razor”—The simplest answer is often the most correct one.

So... I got my new part already, and as suggested decided to test it in the same way. I did them side by side, both in the claws of the helping hands, with their own leads.
Unfortunately, I'm getting damn near identical results.
I don't really know anything but if I had to guess I would say this was not the problem, and I didn't need this part.
I was using those numbers provided earlier, and was expecting to see approximately 1200 Ohm at approx. 210.
These are both coming in around 2200 Ohm.
Back to those numbers, I was looking at the ones regarding the ECT for fan.
Kind of bummed this didn't work out. Still would like to know what resistance for sure I should be seeing before reinstalling and moving on to hopefully find the culprit.
It would be hilarious if the car is fine, and its the sensor for the gauge that is wrong. The car was running great. I only stopped driving because of that gauge.
Any advice?
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Rob H Offline
Senior Member
#42
Okay talk about a mind f***. Sorry for the language but I don't know how else to say it.
For peace of mind lest I forget how, I put it back together minus that disintegrated gasket around the top of the engine coolant sensor.
Took it out for a drive around town and made sure the car was good and hot. Once again the temperature gauge did indeed go up to the higher side of normal but this time did not climb out of that range. Pulled into the driveway popped the hood and what do you know the fan is running!
Prior to draining and replacing my coolant not too long ago, my guage ALWAYS went to the highest side of normal, just like today.
(Just a reminder as that was a different post all together, while doing that drain and replace I had discovered that I was almost two litres short on coolant)
After that coolant replacement, it had been running right in the middle of normal.
Then it started going out of normal range into the red. Did that twice and when I jumped out of the car those two times in my driveway...NO FAN.
Which is why I stopped driving it and started looking into "the problem".
I am confused, but thinking I now need to determine if the car is actually as hot as the guage says.
I guess I learned a lesson on jumping the gun, and also how to gain access to that part of the engine.
So what now though? I guess when I got home those other times with the guage in the red and didn't see the fan going I was quick to shut it off. In retrospect maybe I could have left the car running a few minutes to see if the fan came on.
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Jeff K Offline
Administrator
#43
Worn fan motor not always turning on due to bad bushings, worn brushes, etc? Might want to try jumping the fan motor to the battery (use 10 AWG wire as the fan draws lots of amps, especially as it starts up) a bunch of times to make sure it always starts up. Could also be a failing fan relay in the IRCM or a poor / damaged connection between the IRCM and IRCM electrical connector. Pull the IRM connector and look for damaged / corroded / pushed out pins.
Can also tap into the IRCM main fan output and monitor it with a test light to be sure it is sending power to the main fan when the engine heats up. Check the harness from the IRCM to the fan for damage.
Jeff Korn

88 Turbo Coupe: Intake and exhaust mods, T3 turbo at 24 psi, forced air IC, water injection, BPV, Ranger cam, subframes, etc., etc.
86 Tbird 5.0 (original owner): intake, exhaust, valvetrain mods, 100 HP N2O, ignition, gears, suspension, etc., etc.
11 Crown Vic Interceptor
14 Toyota Camry (wifes car)
95 Taurus GL Vulcan winter beater
67 Honda 450 Super Sport - completely customized
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Rob H Offline
Senior Member
#44
I replaced both the fans when I got the car a few years ago.
I'll check those things out though things seem fine now kind of.
Had the car out a few times now. Its pretty hot today, jumped out several times, fan was running every time.
I saw the guage start to creep out of the normal range. 5 seconds later it had dropped well inside normal for no reason.
Also, turning off the headlights seems to help.
I have no trust for that guage. Might be time to get myself some good ones.
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Jeff K Offline
Administrator
#45
Bad / sticking / failing thermostat? Many aftermarket thermostats are JUNK. Try to source the correct Motorcraft thermostat (192 deg F if I remember correctly). Picked one up several years ago from Rock Auto. I think RA does ship to Canada.
Jeff Korn

88 Turbo Coupe: Intake and exhaust mods, T3 turbo at 24 psi, forced air IC, water injection, BPV, Ranger cam, subframes, etc., etc.
86 Tbird 5.0 (original owner): intake, exhaust, valvetrain mods, 100 HP N2O, ignition, gears, suspension, etc., etc.
11 Crown Vic Interceptor
14 Toyota Camry (wifes car)
95 Taurus GL Vulcan winter beater
67 Honda 450 Super Sport - completely customized
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Mikey97D Offline
Senior Member
#46
The Stant 45820 SuperStat 192 Degrees Fahrenheit Thermostat works well too. I found it on Oreilly's and on Amazon. I had trouble finding the Motorcraft thermostat.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003B1...UTF8&psc=1
1988 TC, 5 spd, Stinger 3" Exhaust, Schneider Roller Cam, -4° Cam Pulley, Cone Filter, Gilles Boost Control Valve set at 17 psi, Walbro 255 lph, CHE Rear Lower and Upper Control Arms, Braided Brake Lines, Hawk HPS 5.0 Front and HPS (F) Rear, CRES Inserts in front calipers, and '93 Cobra Wheels with General 235/50R17 Tires.   
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Rob H Offline
Senior Member
#47
Jeff, I don't know anything about this stuff obviously so I'm leaning on your guy's expertise. I'm saying my gauge seems to be doing funny things. Are you saying in your experience don't distrust the gauge or sensor, suspect something else (the thermostat)that would cause the gauge to act like that?
The thermostat was replaced in the last year or two but I'm not sure what he put in there, almost certainly not a Motorcraft one.
I'm going to order some injectors so I'll throw one of those in while I'm at it.
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anasazi4st Offline
Senior Member
#48
(08-10-2020, 11:45 PM)Rob H Wrote: I replaced both the fans when I got the car a few years ago.
I'll check those things out though things seem fine now kind of.
Had the car out a few times now. Its pretty hot today, jumped out several times, fan was running every time.
I saw the guage start to creep out of the normal range. 5 seconds later it had dropped well inside normal for no reason.
Also, turning off the headlights seems to help.
I have no trust for that guage. Might be time to get myself some good ones.

Rob, et al:

Sunday evening I bit the bullet and replaced the cooling temp switch (what it is actually called by Ford), which is the little threaded sensor right next to the oil filter. This is what controls the temp gauge. There is a red/white striped wire that goes to it. I did this because I thought the gauge’s readings were suspect. (Yes, I know these gauges are ALL pretty much suspect. Installing better ones is a project for this Fall.)

Anyway, the needle did not go past the halfway point. Now, as hot as it gets here, I KNOW that can’t be correct, and in the past it’s been higher. I recently (as mentioned before) got a radiator cap with a temp gauge on it so I could better monitor the coolant temperature. So I planned to remove the sensor and test it on the stove with the “Helping Hands” setup, and compare to a couple of spares I got a while ago.

The plan was to jack up the car, get underneath and remove it that way, as it is damned near impossible to get at it from the top. As it is fairly low on the block I know some (most?) of the coolant is going to drain out. I had a small cork to shove in the hole to minimize the rush of coolant, and of course a large drain pan to catch what did come out.

As is often the case, it didn’t go as planned. Once my fingers got slippery from the coolant, maneuvering the cork into the hole became very difficult. Eventually it fell into the gradually-filling drain pan. I would guess most of the coolant drained out of the block.

Here’s the test results. Rob, you might find this very interesting.

Multimeter set at 2000 (2K) ohms:

WT386P // TS58 // Existing unit
80* // .281 // .274 // .234
215* // .029 // .027 // .023

BTW, I could not find a Motorcraft sensor. I searched and searched years ago, nothing. I have a Standard Motor Parts TS-58, and one from Advance Auto—WT386P. Those test results are nearly identical.

These results seem to indicate that the WT386P would show a slightly hotter temperature; the Existing unit would show a cooler reading, which is exactly the case.

I split the difference and put in the TS58. After restoring the coolant from the pan back into the radiator, I started the car. The cooling fan now comes on just above the “O” of “N O R M A L”—before that It was around the “N”. The next day I drove the car, and the needle was back up near halfway, which is where it has always been before.

(The cooling fan is driven by the ECT, and I’m certain that is working properly. The reason for the difference in the reading is the new sensor, which now shows the fan coming out what seems to be at a hotter temp, but that’s only because the former reading was incorrect.)

One might think that .004 ohms isn’t that big of a deal, but it fixed my issue.
Another proud dues-paying member.

1987 Turbo Coupe w/T5OD, 8.8 axle, grey smoke; most options. Got it in 1991 with 41K miles: 3 turbos, 2 heater cores, 3 T5OD full rebuilds, 6 clutches, 1 head gasket, 2 Teves II ABS units, etc. later....
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anasazi4st Offline
Senior Member
#49
(08-12-2020, 07:43 PM)Rob H Wrote: The thermostat was replaced in the last year or two but I'm not sure what he put in there, almost certainly not a Motorcraft one.
I'm going to order some injectors so I'll throw one of those in while I'm at it

I just saw this response. Get a “permanent” thermostat housing gasket. They’re more expensive (about $10USD) but it will last for years. Better than those paper ones that you’ll end up having to scrape off.
Another proud dues-paying member.

1987 Turbo Coupe w/T5OD, 8.8 axle, grey smoke; most options. Got it in 1991 with 41K miles: 3 turbos, 2 heater cores, 3 T5OD full rebuilds, 6 clutches, 1 head gasket, 2 Teves II ABS units, etc. later....
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Rob H Offline
Senior Member
#50
Question 
Alright, I've got the Standard Motor TS58 as well as their FJ20 injectors sitting in my cart. I don't see a Motorcraft thermostat. If I can't get a Motorcraft through Ford should I get a Stant OE from Rock Auto( https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php...=13&jsn=13) , or something else? The Stant says it comes with the seal, not sure the type. As for the permanent gasket, I'm not sure but I think I see Stant has one ( https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php...3&jsn=5503 )listed for .21 cents CDN which I guess in US would be free probably?

Also, anyone know what happened to the options for messages? I dont see anyway to embed links or pics, bold, colour etc.
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