North American Turbocoupe Organization



cash for clunkers
Sqrlcage Offline
Senior Member
#11
Quote:Originally posted by bgjohnson:
...
But having to buy a new car that is 15-30K still sucks. I hate loans.
I think you hit the nail on the head.

This is more about getting people sucked back into their free spending ways than anything else.

I am specifically avoiding a purchase of a new vehicle. I am trying to limit my long term financial obligations for obvious reasons.
Sustineo alas, 1988, manual trans

grey88smokin Offline
Posting Freak
#12
I saw a show on discovery(I think) about emissions and how the environment is impacted. Cheese burgers pollute more than cars ever will, they factored everything in including cow farts lol.

But it is interesting food for thought, 12 years in the restaurant industry and I have yet to see ONE recycle beer bottles, any other glass, cardboard or paper.

While the government charges us gas guzzler taxes and tightens down on emissions testing, the environment is not their main concern. Every year they try to push this legislation and I am glad it is yet to pass.

I agree 100% with Jeff K, what this legislation, if like japans as tom senior states will force people to illegally register and inspect cars that would otherwise fail under the new strict laws.

If the veggie soup is cold we put it on the stove or in the microwave. Why is that so hard for the government to understand!?
84 SVO 1C
08 MKZ

86 XR7 5spd Offline
Senior Member
#13
Quote:Originally posted by Pete D:
Quote: Fully Support an intelligent application
This will be brought to you by the group that so carefully and, I might add, skillfully brought you over sight of you bail out money.
a guy can dream ... Smile and hope and wish ; but we cant kill every idea cuz we jump ahead to a anticpated mis-application; we need to be smart about the implementation plan up front = my point

wandering: it seems the intent of this proposed legislation is 1. economic stimulus 2.energy policy

(non CO2) emissions arent the primary target as I interpret this, altho it is a tertiary benefit

WRT energy policy, I believe the goal here is to increase American's overall Fuel Economy, thus reducing petro-demand, thus making US less dependent on foreign oil; can we all agree that goal is worthy ? energy policy = defense policy

I dont have too much of a problem with this legislation as long as it's "carrot" (vouchers encouraging upgrading) not "stick" (penalties for not upgrading); conspiracy theorists can rightfully point out that this may just be the 'foot in the door' Smile but really there are many foots already in many doors - it is our responsibility to remain vigilant

stimulus proposals wherein Americans are buying American products, and improving "American Life" at the same time, are IMO the best, examples:

tax credits for weatherizing our homes (insulation & windows made in USA, local contractors used for install, forever lower heat bills for Joe Citizen, forever reduced CO2 & oil dependence); similarly credits for solar, wind, etc

tax credits for reforestation & support for small "farmers" including tree/pulp, organic, specialty, Hobby

$upport for students: K - PHd

non-Pork infrastructure: USA steel & concrete etc, US citizens earning paychecks, US citizen's lifestyle improving

... some good (non NATO) discussion in this thread .. David T
David T
T5 / ported E3 / .63 / 35# / K&N
2.5" exhaust w/ cherry bomb
30+ mpg! 8.2 0-60, 16.4@88 1/4 (gTech)

86 XR7 5spd Offline
Senior Member
#14
Quote:Originally posted by grey88smokin:
I saw a show on discovery(I think) about emissions and how the environment is impacted. Cheese burgers pollute more than cars ever will, they factored everything in including cow farts lol.
ah cow farts..

I hope Discovery pointed out:
there are many significant sources of greenhouse gases (like the methane in cow farts or emissions form volcanos) and other variously toxic chemical compounds which we Can't (directly) Control,
that does not suggest that we shouldnt ALSO pursue reducing / limiting emissions that we Can Control.. In A Smart Manner

system's engineering: if patient is dying of a severed artery, then a band-aid on the paper cut wont help

Quote:Originally posted by grey88smokin:
But it is interesting food for thought, 12 years in the restaurant industry and I have yet to see ONE recycle beer bottles, any other glass, cardboard or paper.
this is a State issue / Failure: in Michigan we have the country's highest (carbonated) beverage container deposit (10 cents). there are NO empty's in MI ditches... kids and retirees ride their bikes and scavenge

while it is anti-Libertarian, I would support a Fed mandate on recycling as part of the stimulus package; it would create A LOT of jobs, reduce landfill usage, improve our Country's lifestyle... win:win:win

states have had decades to do something about recycling, most have done nothing, some have done a pittance; powerful interests in state govt.s like NJ and IL have resisted (follow the $: sanitation workers, trash trucking, landfills) to the detriment of All the states citizens
David T
T5 / ported E3 / .63 / 35# / K&N
2.5" exhaust w/ cherry bomb
30+ mpg! 8.2 0-60, 16.4@88 1/4 (gTech)

86 XR7 5spd Offline
Senior Member
#15
Quote:Originally posted by 5.0TurboCoupe1988:
i truly hate the government. name one thing the government does well besides fleecing hard working americans...
wow.

really?

OK I'll try, personal perspective:

w/o the Pell Grants I received, I would never have been able to afford college at MTU to get my Mech Engrg degree, so that I could go on and work for Ford in Powertrain Engineering,

making good money and paying lots of taxes,

much more so than the Govt. "invested" in me via my Pell Grants
David T
T5 / ported E3 / .63 / 35# / K&N
2.5" exhaust w/ cherry bomb
30+ mpg! 8.2 0-60, 16.4@88 1/4 (gTech)

5.0TurboCoupe1988 Offline
Posting Freak
#16
a "grant" takes money from one person(s) at the muzzle of a gun(via the tax code) based on "ability", and gives it to another person(s) based on "need".

"from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs". ever hear that phrase before?
1988 TC 2.3/5-Speed, 148K

86 XR7 5spd Offline
Senior Member
#17
yes, but you missed my point: the Fed may have actually Made Money on this investment

to put it succintly:
I paid my grant(s) back many times over with my income taxes ; thus, didnt cost you or any other taxpayers ANYTHING

irrespective of that particular example, more generally:
don't those of us with more "means" owe something back to the Country that provided the framework for us to succeed ?
or is it 'I got mine, now the rest of y'all dont get nuthin' ?
David T
T5 / ported E3 / .63 / 35# / K&N
2.5" exhaust w/ cherry bomb
30+ mpg! 8.2 0-60, 16.4@88 1/4 (gTech)

5.0TurboCoupe1988 Offline
Posting Freak
#18
i think this thread belongs in the off topic section.

it doesn't matter "if" the government made money on the "investment" in your education. investing is not the role of the government. look at the AIG debacle and you should be able to see why.

the ones with more "means" already give much to this country. it's called jobs. i wonder how may jobs those with "needs" created?

actually, people with "needs" do create jobs.....with their votes. they vote for politicians that will seize property from the "ones with means" via laws, regulations, taxes, etc. and re-distribute it to them in the form of grants, earned income credit, food stamps, section 8 housing, etc.

since paying taxes is such a noble deed, why didn't you just apply for a low interest government loan saving the taxpayers' money for something even more noble like funding ACORN?

read the book, atlas shrugged, and you will see a glimpse of where we are headed. when the government punishes productive people(higher taxes and regulation) and rewards unproductive people(free food, housing and money), we get less productive people and more unproductive people. there is a tipping point at which the productive people cannot support all unproductive ones and we are getting nearer and nearer to that point every day.

i'm done. enjoy your wonderful government! free money for everyone!
1988 TC 2.3/5-Speed, 148K

Tom Senior Offline
Banned
#19
Here is what they did in CT. They implimented an idle emission test with liberal numbers. The next year they cut the numbers in half. The numbers were lower than when the car was originally built. Then came the liberal dems they wrote into law a dyno load test (ASM 25 25 test with tight numbers) Bingo the tree huggers claimed cars built before 1995 were responsible for 80% of the auto emissions in the state. Bingo they cut the numbers in half again. The coalition of street rodders drove to the capital and protested. So they made an exemption for us. That lasted 6 years. The last election intrenched the state with dems they are writing the laws again to include street rods and hp cars. Never give these people the power to remove you pride and joy from the road. I failed emissions on all my cars. The new standards are impossible to pass with any mods other than stock. They pulled my plates and told me if i did not like it moove to another state. So i did one better i register all my cars in the great state of TEXAS. I sometimes get stopped by the law and i tell them what DMV told me POUND SAND IF YOU DONT LIKE IT. Never trust those elite dummies. I deal with the state on a regular basis and they are the worst. Its a small business mans nightmare.

88turboeric Offline
Junior Member
#20
So... if i buy 10 1980-1990 chevys I could get a NEW FORD for free Smile lol

what?.... it doesn't work like that? Smile
1988 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe 5 spd
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3230945





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